Community translation project: German

Bringing the text of SotS2 up to date for Russian and German players as well as expanding into other languages.

Moderators: Eleahen, motorbit, kenshiro, castewarkp

Forum rules
While this project lives or dies by the exceptional efforts of poly-lingual fans, there is the potential for debate. The main things to remember is that bad Russian/German is better than nothing at all, so while we respect that there are various and subtle options for certain words and concepts, please keep the debate here (not in the public docs), allow Kerberos and super-user mods to make final rulings, and regardless if your suggestions are used, your input was invaluable and you helped make it happen.
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Möbius
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Möbius » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:45 pm

Hm, Thats a valid point i think, so the only other translations i could think of would be Schottenmodul or Reparaturmodul (but both are not realy my favourites).

sen
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by sen » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:20 pm

Please, before I say anything, I want to make it perfectly clear that it is not my intention to provoke or complain or to critizise in any way the great work that has been done so far!

Following Azrael's request I've been reading this thread over and over again before making any changes, but I still have a hard time getting into this project because it seems to me like it is somewhat lost in details. Looking at the first post and some of castewarkp's suggestions I find myself wondering, if the goal of this project hasn't gotten out of focus or if it has changed somewhere along the line. I mean, I can understand how it can be interesting and enriching to aim for a translation that brings the game into the german language in its entirety. But aside from slowing the project down considerably and delaying the establishment of a consensus, it often means reinventing terms to make a seamless translation. Judging from the open document and the discussions here, I have the feeling that this is where this project is heading. Again, I'm not critizising this if that really is what you want.

But from my experience the localization of a game should aim for making it "accessible" - for lack of a better word - to non-english speaking players by allowing them to understand the descriptive and instructive texts.

The two top priorities are:
Ixal wrote:any work should be done with respect to what the devs intended with the original, thous we want to acchive a translation that is as close to the original as possible.

and this, which simply cannot be stressed enough:
castewarkp wrote:My first instinct for all things localization is the shorter version is always better - not for grammatical reasons, but just because devs often run into trouble when an English string that first perfectly into a space gets cut off when turned into a longer German term.


On a personal note: I'm by no means on of those guys who terribly mind anglicisms, even though I do sometimes think that it is too much and it sounds a bit ridiculous at times. But I have come to accept that there are areas - especially in my line of work - where anglicisms are almost impossible to avoid or are even more convenient than using a proper german term. One of the reasons for this is that many of them have become a common part of german linguistic usage over the years - or decades in some cases - and are understood by the vast majority of germans.

What I'm saying is, that words like "Warp-Antrieb" or "Dreadnought" don't really need (further) translation. People who like to play games like SotS2 (and do not or hardly speak english) are familiar with terms like that and I highly doubt that introducing new terms like "Node-Antrieb" will cause confusion or diminish their gaming experience. Additionally, I think that many players will appreciate that certain terms are left unchanged (e.g. Sol Force, Hiver Imperium and so on). I know that my friends who don't speak english very well do so and I certainly did back when I was a kid (lol, MoO2 made me think back then that there actually was such a thing as a "Punktverteidigung").

Well... I still feel like I'll be stepping on someone's toes once I press 'submit', so please let me say again that I've taken a close look at the translation file and for the most part I really think it's great so far.
There's also a more or less personal reason why I felt the need to say this. As I said, I have a hard time contributing to the project, because so many terms appear to be "pending translations" that affect the consistency of the project as a whole and I wouldn't want to interfere by unintentionally making counterproductive changes that would have to be undone by someone else. And with the ongoing discussions about individual terms, I just don't know where to begin.

I don't think, I can post this without making some kind of a concrete suggestion. I'm aware, that I just came to this a few days ago and I don't want to offend anyone who's been working on this since the beginning, but what if most of the debatable terms like "Node", "Dreadnought", a lot of the drive and weapon names were kept unchanged?
Last edited by sen on Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Azrael Ultima » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:35 pm

Well, i partially disagree with one of castewars notions... that a bad translation is better than no translation. Rather, i would posit, a bad translation is often-times worse than doing nothing, and one of the reasons people will often almost instictually claim that the original is always better.

That aside, this thread is mainly intended to deal with the details. There's not going to be much debate on how we translate "game" or "planet". We will have to invent new terms regardless. Node-Antrieb is still a new term, only that, in my opinion, it sounds like a lazy translator.

Personally, i'm very much opposed to doing this half-assed, as well. Were it a different game, where things are more or less randomly named on a best-fit basis, i wouldn't care as much, but Erinys and others put a lot of effort into the background and i think it deserves a proper localisation, not just a token "well i do have to sort of translate this shit".
I also really don't like introducing anglicisms for no good reason.

A poor translation job will not just make us look lazy, but also Kerberos. I don't think they deserve that.
Besides, most of the red lines still there are actually pretty boring and straightforward stuff(and lots of repeats... seriously, some lines are in there 6 times or more).

Lastly, keep in mind that we're still doing localisation here, not translation. That's a bit of a difference, as we need to consider culture, different use of language and that some references just don't work, so we will have to replace them. I don't disagree with Ixal's quote there, but i would have to make a small addition: We should stay close to the devs intent, not their wording.
I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
The zeppelin of bluster Feldman excoriated Freddy with suddenly popped into a cloud of humility. (David Grand, The Disappearing Body, 2002)

Launch apathy protocols. Visual rotational thrusters engaged. Scroll command to HAND/DEXTER/02 received. Submitting pressure request to location Left Mouse. Visual augur confirms hit on Planetary Annihilation General Discussion.

sen
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by sen » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:53 pm

Isn't that, what I've been trying to say, keeping a term unchanged/doing nothing instead of coming up with a bad translation? Just consider, that a translation can also be "bad" if it is too far away from its original meaning, even though it may be proper german and doesn't sound like it's been punched into google translator.
Azrael Ultima wrote:Personally, i'm very much opposed to doing this half-assed, as well. Were it a different game, where things are more or less randomly named on a best-fit basis, i wouldn't care as much, but Erinys and others put a lot of effort into the background and i think it deserves a proper localization, not just a token "well i do have to sort of translate this shit".
I also really don't like introducing anglicisms for no good reason.

A poor translation job will not just make us look lazy, but also Kerberos. I don't think they deserve that.

Since the translations are done by volunteers, I doubt that anyone would think along the line of "well i do have to sort of translate this shit". Why bother helping with the localization if one has that attitude even with a single string?
I don't think it's fair to insinuate, that I'd promote lazy or half-assed translations and disregard the game's background. This may be subjective, but what I dislike about most localizations - not only in games - is, when too much of it's original meaning is lost or warped due to the translation, which causes more harm to the game's background imo.

I'm aware of the difference between a localization and a translation. I don't know, if you're from germany or not and I don't want to guess. I can only repeat, that anglicisms have become more and more common in our language - some of them even found their way into the dictionary, much like 'kindergarten', 'zeitgeist' and so on with the Webster and Oxford. I didn't say it that clearly before, apparently, but that makes their use part of our culture too. So, I think there are just as well terms with which there's no good reason to translate them.

Anyway, if the decision has already been made, that it is going to be a profound localization, then it's not my place to argue with that. At least I know now and can work with that.

Azrael Ultima wrote:Besides, most of the red lines still there are actually pretty boring and straightforward stuff(and lots of repeats... seriously, some lines are in there 6 times or more).

I've noticed that too. Just one more question about the process: what about typos in green strings? Change them and turn the background yellow or notify someone? Read somewhere that green strings are not to be touched.

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Azrael Ultima » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:55 pm

sen wrote:Isn't that, what I've been trying to say, keeping a term unchanged/doing nothing instead of coming up with a bad translation? Just consider, that a translation can also be "bad" if it is too far away from its original meaning, even though it may be proper german and doesn't sound like it's been punched into google translator.

When i say "no translation", i mean no translation at all. Not a partial one.
I've noticed that too. Just one more question about the process: what about typos in green strings? Change them and turn the background yellow or notify someone? Read somewhere that green strings are not to be touched.

It was "green is not to be touched", not green strings. I.e. don't use green, that's for motorbit only. That is, if he reappears, otherwise we probably have to choose somebody else for that(and by we, i mean castewar, since only he can set permissions on the official doc then).

"Spektralwesen" actually seems like a rather apt term... just to long. So "Spektrale" might not be so bad.
I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
The zeppelin of bluster Feldman excoriated Freddy with suddenly popped into a cloud of humility. (David Grand, The Disappearing Body, 2002)

Launch apathy protocols. Visual rotational thrusters engaged. Scroll command to HAND/DEXTER/02 received. Submitting pressure request to location Left Mouse. Visual augur confirms hit on Planetary Annihilation General Discussion.

sen
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by sen » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:43 pm

Azrael Ultima wrote:It was "green is not to be touched", not green strings.

Is that tone really necessary to you?
Moving on...

I wanted to test some changes to see, how they fit, and saw this at game setup:
Image
This seems to be unaffected by the resolution or the window mode.

I made a few changes to the strings.csv in my game's folder and would like you to take a look at this.
Image

I just added a hyphen and a blank character to the ship color string to make the hyphenation display correctly. Same can be done for "Reichsfarbe" too, of course. Just wanted to show the difference.
About the selection buttons for faction through AI difficulty, the vowel mutations seem to be corrupted, when you look at the german csv file of your game. I assume, this is true for all of them (saw this in the main menu too), but I'm not sure atm. I guess a bug report would be appropriate to avoid this for further updates.
I changed it for "Abzeichen auswählen", but since the string for the difficulty level is too long, maybe we should leave the word "auswählen" out for all four buttons. What do you think?

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Azrael Ultima » Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:03 pm

Definitely IMHO. It should be clear enough that they are for selection and they look rather crowded right now.

I think Castewar mentioned something about being so worried getting russian right that he totally forgot about french and german special characters.

As for the tone, i sometimes have an odd way of expressing things. Don't worry to much about it. I hate all humans equally unless they earn themselves a special spot.


Back to other things:
I'd like to propose "Feuersbrunst" for Blazer. It seems like both a fairly close fit (=blaze) as well as a rather accurate description of the section.
I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
The zeppelin of bluster Feldman excoriated Freddy with suddenly popped into a cloud of humility. (David Grand, The Disappearing Body, 2002)

Launch apathy protocols. Visual rotational thrusters engaged. Scroll command to HAND/DEXTER/02 received. Submitting pressure request to location Left Mouse. Visual augur confirms hit on Planetary Annihilation General Discussion.

Yuj
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Yuj » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:04 am

hi, i want to help you with the Translation. I'm from germany.

First: can i chance something in that list by myself or did you do that?

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Nspace
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Nspace » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:12 am

Thanks for wanting to help. :)

This is how the colors are set up for the German docs (Other languages might have different color schemes):

untranslated strings are red
if you touch any string make it yellow. always. even if you only change a single character.
strings translated and syncronized with the read-only document are green
if you think a translation sucks, make it purple


Check out the first page of this thread for more in depth information.
Last edited by Nspace on Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SotS 1 wiki: http://wiki.swordofthestars.com/sots1/Main_Page
SotS 2 wiki: http://wiki.swordofthestars.com/sots2/SotS2_Codex

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Azrael Ultima » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:14 am

I'm not sure your grasp on english is quite up to the task...

For the colours:
Green: Has been updated in the official source document. Don't apply this color to any lines.
Yellow: Line has been changed. Apply to any line you change, no matter how big a change.
Red: Untranslated. There shouldn't be any reason to use this.
Purple: Unsure/Questionable translation. For anything you want a second opinion on.
Light Blue: Contains a term we haven't yet decided on, but otherwise translated.

For the german translation, we decided to only let motorbit touch the source documents, any work is done on the public one in the OP. He's been rather absent as of late, though.

The "working" doc can be edited by anyone, no special rights required.
I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
The zeppelin of bluster Feldman excoriated Freddy with suddenly popped into a cloud of humility. (David Grand, The Disappearing Body, 2002)

Launch apathy protocols. Visual rotational thrusters engaged. Scroll command to HAND/DEXTER/02 received. Submitting pressure request to location Left Mouse. Visual augur confirms hit on Planetary Annihilation General Discussion.

Yuj
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Yuj » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:17 am

My english is not so good, okay, but i can translate it good to german.

So did i need to tell hier what i translate or can i easly translate?

Möbius
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Möbius » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:27 am


Azrael Ultima
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Azrael Ultima » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:52 am

Depends on what you're working on. There's a bunch of repeats and trivial stuff that still needs to be done, which we really don't need to discuss here.

If it's red and a term that has a german equivalent that's not significantly longer and fits the purpose, you can probably go ahead on those as well.

Discussion is mostly for the stuff where you either really don't like what others have suggested, are dealing with strange terms or phrasing, words that cannot be translated directly and when you want second opinions before changing something.
Depending on the topic, either here or directly in the comments of the doc, what you think will work better(though it's probably more visible if you post it here).
I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
The zeppelin of bluster Feldman excoriated Freddy with suddenly popped into a cloud of humility. (David Grand, The Disappearing Body, 2002)

Launch apathy protocols. Visual rotational thrusters engaged. Scroll command to HAND/DEXTER/02 received. Submitting pressure request to location Left Mouse. Visual augur confirms hit on Planetary Annihilation General Discussion.

Yuj
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Yuj » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:28 pm

okay, some easy trivial stuff ^^

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Azrael Ultima » Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:36 pm

You know, i'm starting to get a little concerned about motorbit's extended (and, well, unannounced) silence...

I've also put in "P.A.M.P.E." for GOOP, unless any of you think they've got a better idea. Sometimes a direct translation works better than you expected.
Maybe we can even come up with some "fitting" backronym.
I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
The zeppelin of bluster Feldman excoriated Freddy with suddenly popped into a cloud of humility. (David Grand, The Disappearing Body, 2002)

Launch apathy protocols. Visual rotational thrusters engaged. Scroll command to HAND/DEXTER/02 received. Submitting pressure request to location Left Mouse. Visual augur confirms hit on Planetary Annihilation General Discussion.

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