Community translation project: German

Bringing the text of SotS2 up to date for Russian and German players as well as expanding into other languages.

Moderators: Eleahen, motorbit, castewarkp, kenshiro

Forum rules
While this project lives or dies by the exceptional efforts of poly-lingual fans, there is the potential for debate. The main things to remember is that bad Russian/German is better than nothing at all, so while we respect that there are various and subtle options for certain words and concepts, please keep the debate here (not in the public docs), allow Kerberos and super-user mods to make final rulings, and regardless if your suggestions are used, your input was invaluable and you helped make it happen.
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Azrael Ultima
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Azrael Ultima » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:39 am

castewarkp wrote:Nimble Lil Minx - Hurtige kleine Maid
(This is the translation as it appears in the German subtitles of Ghostbusters, which is what the reference is. It's a well remembered Bill Murray line here - hopefully it resonates in the German as well. If not, is it literal enough to work?)

Don't think i've ever heard anybody use that line. Might be a little to far-fetched.
"Revolverheld" should do nicely, and most people could probably relate Magellan and improved survey efficiency easily.

So Ol' Yellow Streak refers to scaredy cats... i think "Hasenherz" would work well.

For the Yorktown, some fantastic creature known for self-healing could do. I don't think anybody but naval enthusiasts would understand it otherwise.
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Sazuroi
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Sazuroi » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:51 am

I had to look the "Yorktown" stuff up as well, and I color myself at least functionally informed about naval matters.^^ Albait I'm not sure "Troll" or something would work out as a nickname for something technical, I'd at least go for "Unimog", which is one verhicle well-known to be both sturdy and easily repaired. I think it's even known in english-speaking countries. Lacking an especially prominent naval history, there's not much to choose from in well-known german ships.

As for the Hood, the "Bismark" was similarly constructed (if not a blatant rip-off), as a fast battleship with less-than-impressive armor. Which is ironic, considering that was the ship which also sunk the Hood. However, I hesitated to name it as an option since everything from that part in german history is still somewhat problematic.

Minx: I'm not sure how the german dub translated that line, whatever they used might be an option.

Lewis and Clark: If so, rather the full name of "Ferdinand Magellan", since there's also two galaxies named after him.

Going a while back, I think there still wasn't a decision on the translation for battleriders (I also don't recall if Argos Naval Yard was ever translated to german) and while I looked over the list Dan87 linked, I thought it might be the easiest solution to just call them "Zerstörer", since they are based on those and still fulfill that role in the fleet composition. In fact some of the mission names (DEL, Escort Destroyer) do already exist on that list. The techtree battleriders could simply be called "Trägerwaffen", Carrier Weapons, since it also includes Drones.

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Dan87
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Dan87 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:55 am

I havent seen Ghostbustern in O-Ton but I think he said "flinkes kleines Luder" or "flinkes kleines Biest" which would go along the line of Nimble Lil Minx, because she dodged their beams.

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Azrael Ultima » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:22 pm

Sazuroi wrote:Going a while back, I think there still wasn't a decision on the translation for battleriders (I also don't recall if Argos Naval Yard was ever translated to german) and while I looked over the list Dan87 linked, I thought it might be the easiest solution to just call them "Zerstörer", since they are based on those and still fulfill that role in the fleet composition. In fact some of the mission names (DEL, Escort Destroyer) do already exist on that list. The techtree battleriders could simply be called "Trägerwaffen", Carrier Weapons, since it also includes Drones.

They are the "Kampf-" line of ships for now, while the research tree is "Begleitschifftechnologie". Keep in mind that there's more to battle riders than just the destroyer sized ships. For any mention of rider on it's own i would propose "Boot".
All regular wet navy ship types so far are FTL capable, and i think we should keep it that way.

Argos Naval Yard should be "Marinewerft Argos", i think.

I don't think there would be a problem calling a vehicle "Troll". It's hardly unusual to compare vehicles to living beings in german. The german army even names most of its armored vehicles after animals.
I'd say "Käfer", but i don't think that quite fits for a battle ship, even if they were easy to repair and hard to break.


Edith: Somebody seems to have added a large number of rather questionable translations to the tech descriptions and marked them all yellow. There's a lot of spelling mistakes and some very odd grammar, and in some cases the "translation" has no connection to the original text. I'm trying to fix some of it, but it would be helpful if others could look into it for second opinions and things i may have missed.
I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
The zeppelin of bluster Feldman excoriated Freddy with suddenly popped into a cloud of humility. (David Grand, The Disappearing Body, 2002)

Launch apathy protocols. Visual rotational thrusters engaged. Scroll command to HAND/DEXTER/02 received. Submitting pressure request to location Left Mouse. Visual augur confirms hit on Planetary Annihilation General Discussion.

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Dan87
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Dan87 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:37 pm

Azrael Ultima wrote:Edith: Somebody seems to have added a large number of rather questionable translations to the tech descriptions and marked them all yellow. There's a lot of spelling mistakes and some very odd grammar, and in some cases the "translation" has no connection to the original text. I'm trying to fix some of it, but it would be helpful if others could look into it for second opinions and things i may have missed.


Looked through all the tech descriptions..found a few cases were i added the original text or corrected the syntax a bit or fixed typos. Also marked translations in light blue that are ok in general but include words we haven not yet decided about, mostly the node stuff.

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Azrael Ultima » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:05 am

Does anybody know if there's a german term for crease shading?

Also looking for good ideas for the Scotsman module. I don't think "Schotte" has quite the right meaning associated with it and might be mistaken for "Schott" as well.
I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
The zeppelin of bluster Feldman excoriated Freddy with suddenly popped into a cloud of humility. (David Grand, The Disappearing Body, 2002)

Launch apathy protocols. Visual rotational thrusters engaged. Scroll command to HAND/DEXTER/02 received. Submitting pressure request to location Left Mouse. Visual augur confirms hit on Planetary Annihilation General Discussion.

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Dan87
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Dan87 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:12 am

Azrael Ultima wrote:Does anybody know if there's a german term for crease shading?

Also looking for good ideas for the Scotsman module. I don't think "Schotte" has quite the right meaning associated with it and might be mistaken for "Schott" as well.


Isnt that a allusion to Montgomery „Scotty“ Scott and means that the module contains "many little scottys" ? :P
Never heard of crease shading...not my domain.

Möbius
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Möbius » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:43 am

Azrael Ultima wrote:Does anybody know if there's a german term for crease shading?

Also looking for good ideas for the Scotsman module. I don't think "Schotte" has quite the right meaning associated with it and might be mistaken for "Schott" as well.



Maybe "Faltenschattierung" for crease shading?


I would say Scottymodul would work.

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Azrael Ultima » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:35 am

I'm a bit worried that whoever has the rights on ST:TOS might take some issue with that, and Kerb certainly isn't in the position to deal with any such stupidity, even if it ultimately amounts to nothing.
I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
The zeppelin of bluster Feldman excoriated Freddy with suddenly popped into a cloud of humility. (David Grand, The Disappearing Body, 2002)

Launch apathy protocols. Visual rotational thrusters engaged. Scroll command to HAND/DEXTER/02 received. Submitting pressure request to location Left Mouse. Visual augur confirms hit on Planetary Annihilation General Discussion.

Möbius
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Möbius » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:45 pm

Hm, Thats a valid point i think, so the only other translations i could think of would be Schottenmodul or Reparaturmodul (but both are not realy my favourites).

sen
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by sen » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:20 pm

Please, before I say anything, I want to make it perfectly clear that it is not my intention to provoke or complain or to critizise in any way the great work that has been done so far!

Following Azrael's request I've been reading this thread over and over again before making any changes, but I still have a hard time getting into this project because it seems to me like it is somewhat lost in details. Looking at the first post and some of castewarkp's suggestions I find myself wondering, if the goal of this project hasn't gotten out of focus or if it has changed somewhere along the line. I mean, I can understand how it can be interesting and enriching to aim for a translation that brings the game into the german language in its entirety. But aside from slowing the project down considerably and delaying the establishment of a consensus, it often means reinventing terms to make a seamless translation. Judging from the open document and the discussions here, I have the feeling that this is where this project is heading. Again, I'm not critizising this if that really is what you want.

But from my experience the localization of a game should aim for making it "accessible" - for lack of a better word - to non-english speaking players by allowing them to understand the descriptive and instructive texts.

The two top priorities are:
Ixal wrote:any work should be done with respect to what the devs intended with the original, thous we want to acchive a translation that is as close to the original as possible.

and this, which simply cannot be stressed enough:
castewarkp wrote:My first instinct for all things localization is the shorter version is always better - not for grammatical reasons, but just because devs often run into trouble when an English string that first perfectly into a space gets cut off when turned into a longer German term.


On a personal note: I'm by no means on of those guys who terribly mind anglicisms, even though I do sometimes think that it is too much and it sounds a bit ridiculous at times. But I have come to accept that there are areas - especially in my line of work - where anglicisms are almost impossible to avoid or are even more convenient than using a proper german term. One of the reasons for this is that many of them have become a common part of german linguistic usage over the years - or decades in some cases - and are understood by the vast majority of germans.

What I'm saying is, that words like "Warp-Antrieb" or "Dreadnought" don't really need (further) translation. People who like to play games like SotS2 (and do not or hardly speak english) are familiar with terms like that and I highly doubt that introducing new terms like "Node-Antrieb" will cause confusion or diminish their gaming experience. Additionally, I think that many players will appreciate that certain terms are left unchanged (e.g. Sol Force, Hiver Imperium and so on). I know that my friends who don't speak english very well do so and I certainly did back when I was a kid (lol, MoO2 made me think back then that there actually was such a thing as a "Punktverteidigung").

Well... I still feel like I'll be stepping on someone's toes once I press 'submit', so please let me say again that I've taken a close look at the translation file and for the most part I really think it's great so far.
There's also a more or less personal reason why I felt the need to say this. As I said, I have a hard time contributing to the project, because so many terms appear to be "pending translations" that affect the consistency of the project as a whole and I wouldn't want to interfere by unintentionally making counterproductive changes that would have to be undone by someone else. And with the ongoing discussions about individual terms, I just don't know where to begin.

I don't think, I can post this without making some kind of a concrete suggestion. I'm aware, that I just came to this a few days ago and I don't want to offend anyone who's been working on this since the beginning, but what if most of the debatable terms like "Node", "Dreadnought", a lot of the drive and weapon names were kept unchanged?
Last edited by sen on Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Azrael Ultima » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:35 pm

Well, i partially disagree with one of castewars notions... that a bad translation is better than no translation. Rather, i would posit, a bad translation is often-times worse than doing nothing, and one of the reasons people will often almost instictually claim that the original is always better.

That aside, this thread is mainly intended to deal with the details. There's not going to be much debate on how we translate "game" or "planet". We will have to invent new terms regardless. Node-Antrieb is still a new term, only that, in my opinion, it sounds like a lazy translator.

Personally, i'm very much opposed to doing this half-assed, as well. Were it a different game, where things are more or less randomly named on a best-fit basis, i wouldn't care as much, but Erinys and others put a lot of effort into the background and i think it deserves a proper localisation, not just a token "well i do have to sort of translate this shit".
I also really don't like introducing anglicisms for no good reason.

A poor translation job will not just make us look lazy, but also Kerberos. I don't think they deserve that.
Besides, most of the red lines still there are actually pretty boring and straightforward stuff(and lots of repeats... seriously, some lines are in there 6 times or more).

Lastly, keep in mind that we're still doing localisation here, not translation. That's a bit of a difference, as we need to consider culture, different use of language and that some references just don't work, so we will have to replace them. I don't disagree with Ixal's quote there, but i would have to make a small addition: We should stay close to the devs intent, not their wording.
I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
The zeppelin of bluster Feldman excoriated Freddy with suddenly popped into a cloud of humility. (David Grand, The Disappearing Body, 2002)

Launch apathy protocols. Visual rotational thrusters engaged. Scroll command to HAND/DEXTER/02 received. Submitting pressure request to location Left Mouse. Visual augur confirms hit on Planetary Annihilation General Discussion.

sen
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by sen » Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:53 pm

Isn't that, what I've been trying to say, keeping a term unchanged/doing nothing instead of coming up with a bad translation? Just consider, that a translation can also be "bad" if it is too far away from its original meaning, even though it may be proper german and doesn't sound like it's been punched into google translator.
Azrael Ultima wrote:Personally, i'm very much opposed to doing this half-assed, as well. Were it a different game, where things are more or less randomly named on a best-fit basis, i wouldn't care as much, but Erinys and others put a lot of effort into the background and i think it deserves a proper localization, not just a token "well i do have to sort of translate this shit".
I also really don't like introducing anglicisms for no good reason.

A poor translation job will not just make us look lazy, but also Kerberos. I don't think they deserve that.

Since the translations are done by volunteers, I doubt that anyone would think along the line of "well i do have to sort of translate this shit". Why bother helping with the localization if one has that attitude even with a single string?
I don't think it's fair to insinuate, that I'd promote lazy or half-assed translations and disregard the game's background. This may be subjective, but what I dislike about most localizations - not only in games - is, when too much of it's original meaning is lost or warped due to the translation, which causes more harm to the game's background imo.

I'm aware of the difference between a localization and a translation. I don't know, if you're from germany or not and I don't want to guess. I can only repeat, that anglicisms have become more and more common in our language - some of them even found their way into the dictionary, much like 'kindergarten', 'zeitgeist' and so on with the Webster and Oxford. I didn't say it that clearly before, apparently, but that makes their use part of our culture too. So, I think there are just as well terms with which there's no good reason to translate them.

Anyway, if the decision has already been made, that it is going to be a profound localization, then it's not my place to argue with that. At least I know now and can work with that.

Azrael Ultima wrote:Besides, most of the red lines still there are actually pretty boring and straightforward stuff(and lots of repeats... seriously, some lines are in there 6 times or more).

I've noticed that too. Just one more question about the process: what about typos in green strings? Change them and turn the background yellow or notify someone? Read somewhere that green strings are not to be touched.

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Dan87
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Dan87 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:14 pm

You can fix typos in green texts and mark them yellow afterwards, just dont mark anything green as it means that the string was synchronized with the kerb doc.

Edit: I know I listed a few translations for specter some time ago..just had another thought...Spektralwesen would be a term that includes everything from Schemen, over Geist to Gespenst or Energiefetzen. So coming from Spektralwesen I would suggest "Spektrale" as term for Specters.

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Azrael Ultima » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:55 pm

sen wrote:Isn't that, what I've been trying to say, keeping a term unchanged/doing nothing instead of coming up with a bad translation? Just consider, that a translation can also be "bad" if it is too far away from its original meaning, even though it may be proper german and doesn't sound like it's been punched into google translator.

When i say "no translation", i mean no translation at all. Not a partial one.
I've noticed that too. Just one more question about the process: what about typos in green strings? Change them and turn the background yellow or notify someone? Read somewhere that green strings are not to be touched.

It was "green is not to be touched", not green strings. I.e. don't use green, that's for motorbit only. That is, if he reappears, otherwise we probably have to choose somebody else for that(and by we, i mean castewar, since only he can set permissions on the official doc then).

"Spektralwesen" actually seems like a rather apt term... just to long. So "Spektrale" might not be so bad.
I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts.
The zeppelin of bluster Feldman excoriated Freddy with suddenly popped into a cloud of humility. (David Grand, The Disappearing Body, 2002)

Launch apathy protocols. Visual rotational thrusters engaged. Scroll command to HAND/DEXTER/02 received. Submitting pressure request to location Left Mouse. Visual augur confirms hit on Planetary Annihilation General Discussion.

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