Community translation project: German

Bringing the text of SotS2 up to date for Russian and German players as well as expanding into other languages.

Moderators: Eleahen, castewarkp, motorbit, kenshiro

Forum rules
While this project lives or dies by the exceptional efforts of poly-lingual fans, there is the potential for debate. The main things to remember is that bad Russian/German is better than nothing at all, so while we respect that there are various and subtle options for certain words and concepts, please keep the debate here (not in the public docs), allow Kerberos and super-user mods to make final rulings, and regardless if your suggestions are used, your input was invaluable and you helped make it happen.
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Azrael Ultima
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Azrael Ultima » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:13 pm

Battle can be both "Kampf" and "Schlacht". Dreadnought isn't really used as a description, it's almost always a name in german.

Also, "Schlachtkreuzer" are usually ships the size of a battleship, so the name seems a little weird. Doesn't help that germany has some of the biggest frigates in the world due to not being allowed to build battleships and such.
I think keeping it as "Kampf-" would fit their role better. Also keep in mind that we have Battle Riders, for which i can't think of anything which wouldn't sound completely ridiculous with "Schlacht", but easily of options using "Kampf".

Personally, i prefer "Risslinie" or "Bruchlinie" to "Vektor". Reminds me to much of the boring parts of math.
finalvinyl wrote:"Punktverteidigung" does not exist as a german word. Correctly it's called "Flak". In the game it fits also to use "Abwehr" or "Verteidigung" in all cases of the use of the word "point defence".

No. FlaK stands for "Flugabwehr-Kanone", which is something completely different. Punktverteidigung may not be a real thing, but it's generally understood just fine, though "Nahbereichsverteidigung" works as well. ("Nahbereichsverteidigungssystem" would be the entire system from the weapons to targeting computers, sensors, mounts etc.)


Raumschiff Orion... hey, has anybody seen my iron and desk lamp, er, i mean, landing controls?


Eh, while i'm at it: Missiles are "Flugkörper" or "Rakete", depending on what you're talking about. Military uses usually use "Flugkörper", though.(This, of course, refers to those missiles that have their own engine, not simple slugs or arrows)
Last edited by Azrael Ultima on Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sadrato
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Sadrato » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:29 pm

motorbit wrote:der schwarm is the swarm not the hivers.
a hive is a bau, or a nest...

There actually is no translation for Hiver or hive in German
the beehive does translate as "Bienenschwarm" hence my comment about it only somewhat fitting.

motorbit wrote:anyhow... Nahbereichsverteidigunssystem is just another word abomination as your patrikelrückführsystem. great to win a round of hanging man, poor to have it within any text one expect the reader to enjoy the reading.

German language and especially the military jargon is littered with "word abominations" but if you want to translate them correctly you have to use them nonetheless.
There is no Punktverteidigung in the German language.
The correct Term for point defense is Nahbereichsverteidigunssystem or the English abbreviation CIWS.
A Flak or AA-System is something completly different from a CIWS.

Reflex Reaktor is by all means a wrong translation, Reflax Furnace =/= Reflex Reaktor

Seriously, you do not want to translate a Far Caster as "Weitwerfer" the german verb of "werfen" (Throwing) is very specific in its use and would produce really goofy connotations/pictures if used together with ships or fleets.

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motorbit
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by motorbit » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:37 pm

yeah, id be fine with bruchlinie for solforce and risslinie for the horde, too.

dreadnaughts indeed are not used as ship classification in german. though the english dreadnaught class was the first real battleship, mainly defined by very strong armour, and a main attilery with homogene calibre that could focuss all its guns onto one target.
this all-big-guns ships (they realy used this word for a short time) made pretty much all older designs obsolete and where adopted by all nations that had the intention to murder other nations war ships.
the main destinction toward a cruiser was armour and speed, not size. though a cruiser could pack almost the same fire power of a battleship, it would not stand a chance one on one against a real battleship because it was much more squishy. the graf spee is a famous excample of a fast cruiser.
schlachtkreuzer are somewhere in the middle between cruiser and battleship.

now, a battleship had not 3x the size of a cruiser, witch ever flavour. non the less...
i think Kreuzer and Schlachtschiff would be a good translation for cruiser and dreadnaught, where i think Schlachtkreuzer would fit the tarkas and liir battlecruisers nicely.

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motorbit
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by motorbit » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:41 pm

Sadrato wrote:Reflex Reaktor is by all means a wrong translation, Reflax Furnace =/= Reflex Reaktor


again - we had this discussion already. another option was Reflexbrennkammer, witch would be a more correct translation of the original furnace.
however, the devs voted for the reaktor, so reaktor it is.
keep in mind that the best translation not necessarily is a translation that tranlates the english word best, but that describes the tech best. if it was all about translating this stuff 1:1, we could let google do the job as well.

as for nahbereichsverteidigung...
well, i dont like it very much, but yeah, i can see where it does fit and i can not offer something better.

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Azrael Ultima » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:46 pm

My vote is still on "Kampfboot", "Kampfkreuzer" and "Kampfschiff" for BR, BC and BB, mainly so we can keep them as starting with the same word.
Both battle cruiser and "Schlachtkreuzer" actually refer to ships the size of battleships but with less armor, giving them greater speed. To their dismay, they weren't fast enough to make up for the lack of armor, so on the whole, the design was a failure.
Sadrato wrote:Seriously, you do not want to translate a Far Caster as "Weitwerfer" the german verb of "werfen" (Throwing) is very specific in its use and would produce really goofy connotations/pictures if used together with ships or fleets.
The picture you get from that fits a lot better than "Raumsprung" would. It's really not that odd. In fact, it's pretty damn close to the image i have when i hear farcaster.
I still prefer "Schleuder", though. The word could also be translated into english as "ling, which fits just fine to what is going on.

Bee hive is a "Bienenstock" or "Bienenkorb", not a swarm of bees.

"Reflexreaktor" might not be a proper translation, but at least it doesn't sound silly and isn't overly long. "Korrekte Übersetzung" has to take a step back to things that actually work. Being overly literal is one of the problems bad translations have. You're being "Überkorrekt".

Lastly, drop it down to "Nahbereichsverteidigung" if you want PD in general. The "-system" only applies when you're talking about a concrete system to facilitate PD.
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Sadrato
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Sadrato » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:58 pm

@Azrael

Kampf and Schlacht are two different words in German and can not be used interchangeably.
A BC is a "Schlachtkreuzer" in the German language and not a "Kampfkreuzer" in fact such a term does not exist.
A Dreadnought is or better has been an informal name for the biggest ships in the Navy (eg. ship of the line) gradually being replaced by BB "Schlachtschiff". Before the name "Schlachtschiff" was coined in Germany Dreadnought was informally used. At the beginning of WW2 the term was used in Germany for obsolete (low AOE and slow) ships of the line (Schleswig-Holstein, Schlesien).

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motorbit
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by motorbit » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:00 pm

i full agree to azraels last post.
just lets stop discussing what a correct translation of hivers would be. because translating the species names - not going to happen.

Möbius
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Möbius » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:02 pm

motorbit wrote:keep in mind that the best translation not necessarily is a translation that tranlates the english word best, but that describes the tech best. if it was all about translating this stuff 1:1, we could let google do the job as well.


And thats why i think "Raumschleuder/Raumwerfer" would be not the best translation for casting. It is near the word cast, but both "werfen" and "schleudern" are in my opinion to strong connected with imparting kinetic energy into a mass to move it (i always thinking of a gate using a sling to throw the ships, when i hear "Raumschleuder"), what a gate does not do.

PS.: I also think i never saw a game, where spellcaster was translated as "Spruchwerfer"/"Zauberwerfer"

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motorbit
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by motorbit » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:07 pm

oh, yeah. the older versions of the adnd pen and paper translated casting a spell with "einen zauber schleudern". it was a realy poor translation XD

as for raumschleuder, its funny. because it think it perfectly fits onto the inaccurate caster system, that just throws the fleet toward a random point in space. that it warps the distance... who cares. its a total scify slug.

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Azrael Ultima » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:17 pm

I faintly remember hearing it being used that way... nowadays, it's usually translated as "Zauber wirken"(basically, creating it. could also be translated as weaving). Not quite the same connotations, but it doesn't run into the odd problems casting has with spells that cannot actually be thrown.
Sadrato wrote:@Azrael

Kampf and Schlacht are two different words in German and can not be used interchangeably.
A BC is a "Schlachtkreuzer" in the German language and not a "Kampfkreuzer" in fact such a term does not exist.
A Dreadnought is or better has been an informal name for the biggest ships in the Navy (eg. ship of the line) gradually being replaced by BB "Schlachtschiff". Before the name "Schlachtschiff" was coined in Germany Dreadnought was informally used. At the beginning of WW2 the term was used in Germany for obsolete (low AOE and slow) ships of the line (Schleswig-Holstein, Schlesien).

We also don't have any ships that carry cruiser sized ships from one star system to another. What's your point?
That the term doesn't currently exist in german is an advantage in this case and part of the reason i chose it, because "Schlachtkreuzer" doesn't fit at all.

Also, you yourself admit that Dreadnought was only used informally and later replaced by "Schlachtschiff".
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Sadrato
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Sadrato » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:31 pm

My point is simply that a Kampfkreuzer is completely off.
I'd rather think that this would be a translation error rather than a creative new naming method.

Concerning the Dreadnought:
Since it was used to describe the biggest ships in the navy in both countries, England (Formally) and Germany (Informally), why not just keep Dreadnought as Dreadnought and stick to the pattern.

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motorbit
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by motorbit » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:40 pm

in german battleships never where called dreadnaughts. though dreadnaught proably would work for most players, schlachtschiff had a much higher descriptive value for these players exploring the game. especially for these that did not spend to much attention to their history lessons. everyone will know what a schlachtschiff means, where the odds are, more people would rather think about a huge walking cyborg then a battleship when confronted with the word dreadnaught.

kampfkreuzer is not off for one simple reason:
this is not a ww2 naval simulator. its a scifi game. though of cause references to the history are intended, the goal is not to reasemble the naming pattern of any past navy, but the naming pattern of the game. and kampfkreuzer is a word that fits well within the context of the game.

Möbius
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Möbius » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:44 pm

Sadrato wrote:Concerning the Dreadnought:
Since it was used to describe the biggest ships in the navy in both countries, England (Formally) and Germany (Informally), why not just keep Dreadnought as Dreadnought and stick to the pattern.


Dreadnoughts are no longer the biggest ships in SOTS, Leviathans are bigger. So following the pattern we should call Leviathans, Dreadnoughts?


motorbit wrote:i think Kreuzer and Schlachtschiff would be a good translation for cruiser and dreadnaught, where i think Schlachtkreuzer would fit the tarkas and liir battlecruisers nicely.


I would sign this, but im not sure about Schlachtkreuzer for battlecruiser, as this would lead to Schlachtboot for BattleRider, and Schlachtschiff for BattleShips (which is already used for the dreadnought). Maybe Kampfboot, Kampfkreuzer und Kampschiff for the three Rider Classes?

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Azrael Ultima » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:02 pm

That's another reason i suggested those three terms.

Also, yes. Dreadnought would go to Leviathans following Sadratos logic, while i see little reason to come up with a different term for those. We could probably get away leaving the name completely unchanged, though that might produce a few grammar mistakes.
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Sadrato
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Re: Community translation project: German

Post by Sadrato » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:03 pm

I'm not arguing about Kampfkreuzer or Schlachtkreuzer because of WW2.
Just saying that while Schlachtkreuzer is an actual Ship class Kampfkreuzer is not and because of that a translation into a fictional class could be understood as an error.

My WW2 reference is only about the dreadnought name which existed before the class Schlachtschiff was coined.

Möbius wrote:]
Dreadnoughts are no longer the biggest ships in SOTS, Leviathans are bigger. So following the pattern we should call Leviathans, Dreadnoughts?

nope, just keeping the pattern concerning sots 1.
In Sots 1 there where no BB only destroyesr, cruiser class ships,and the Dreadnoughts.
In Sots 2 now comes a new addition, the Leviathan.
Destroyer is substituted by Battlerider
Cruiser stays as Cruiser
Dreadnought stays as Dreadnought
Leviathan is added
--> no BBs
So in an attempt to translate I would keep the last two classes since Dreadnought has been used in the German language post and during WW2 to describe the not yet invented class of BB (edited).
And Leviathan is a fictional class which can be perfectly translated to Leviathan.
Cruiser may obviously be translated as Kreuzer. My remark towards Schlachtkreuzer was aimed at the translation concerning Battlecruiser, because BC translates simply into Schlachtkreuzer and not Kampfkreuzer in German. Sorry if I misunderstood something or caused a missunderstanding.
Problem with Battlerider would be harder to solve, but I would go with some kind of Boot.
Geleitboote, Patrouillenboote and such.

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