Hunters *spoilers*

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patton1942
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Re: Hunters *spoilers*

Post by patton1942 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:45 am

Mecron wrote:this always makes me laugh...like if you can afford 30 dreads you are not already winning pretty much already. Though the replaced by a repair ship thing is a bug. :oops:



I was halfway to posting this exact thing, but stopped. The only time I could think of having this many dreads of one class, in one fleet would be either an extended mop up action to prolong the game, or in one of those 250 star type games where everything gets so out of control.

Either way, I gotta agree. I just didn't want to get into one of those big arguments over gameplay being balanced for default settings and going farther from that (in either direction) has a huge destabilizing effect.




anyway: just some quick thoughts on how to counter this

fast moving cloaked destroyers, patrol ships, etc. get close enough that the enemy can no longer withdraw from battle, but stay far enough away to NOT get the crap shot out of you.

Bring your own, dedicated combat dreadnoughts. You should be able to mop the floor with cruisers and while the enemy is doing its warp in, drop ships, warp out thing, the fleet should be pretty much stationary and concentrated (flank it and hit them from the side or rear), hit them at distance with impactors, spam drones at them. tarka PD sucks. If moving, it won't be concentrated. isolate elements and defeat them in detail. If staying together and moving get your fleet close enough to prevent them from retreating and bringing in another ship.
Mecron on Rebellions: "hell no, we won't go!" becomes "Holy crap! We don't wanna glow!"
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Connll
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Re: Hunters *spoilers*

Post by Connll » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:30 am

I don´t know if this is a working strategy.

I load my carriers with missiles, and the AM- hunter has 2 large mounts that have very narrow firing arcs, pointed backwards. So I put nanite or KK missiles into those mounts.

My hunter Fleets have plenty of long-range firepower.
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erdrik
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Re: Hunters *spoilers*

Post by erdrik » Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:59 pm

Ive been wondering about the AM Hunters weapon loadout...
It seems less than the Fusion Hunter too me...

ZedF
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Re: Hunters *spoilers*

Post by ZedF » Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:10 pm

IIRC you get fewer medium mounts, but more large mounts.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

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erdrik
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Re: Hunters *spoilers*

Post by erdrik » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:04 am

Only 1 extra, 2 of which have extremely narrow rear facing firing arcs.
And since when do Tarks chose larges over mediums? :?

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Teledahn
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Re: Hunters *spoilers*

Post by Teledahn » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:38 am

The AM Hunter doesn't seem like it's much of an upgrade compared to its fusion predecessor.

(Light/Med/Large)
Hunter-F: 7/20/3, 8 of the mediums are fixed forward as in strafe cmd section.
Hunter-A: 3/17/4, again 8 fixed meds, and two larges are fixed rearward in the engine area.

Hunter-F can have upwards of 28k armor with adamantite. Speed of 90, turn speed 60, identical maneuvering/speed to a HH/armor/SH Fusion cruiser.
Hunter-A, upwards of 35k armor, Speed 130, turn speed 970(!!!) which seems an obvious bug. HH/armor/AM warp has 110/70.

They seem far superior than the strafe/armor/(Fus or AM) cruisers they appear modeled from, haven't used them in combat myself yet, so i don't know if that wacky 970 turning is a display error or incredible maneuvering.

The H-A's engine 'section' has three rear facing dorsal medium turrets, one forward facing belly turret, and two fixed aft facing large mounts.
The H-F for comparison has the forward facing belly medium turret, six medium turrets in broadside config, three port, three starboard, a rear facing large turret and four small turrets, two dorsal, two belly, all four aft facing.

So Fus->AM upgrade loses four lights, three mediums, and a large turret, for the gain of two large fixed AFT FACING mounts. Also a significant gain in maneuvering/speed and armor. Hefty cost in weapons, as I don't think I'll get much use out of those fixed mounts.

Mecron, if they aren't intended as replaceable by RnS cruisers, what will they be rebuilt by? Support DN's and planets? Also I think the rear facing large mounts are silly.

tpfleming12
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Re: Hunters *spoilers*

Post by tpfleming12 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:16 pm

Just a thought here could these things spam enough missiles to over whelm phasor point defense since a Dn +3H/K combo can spit out some 84 missile +12 heavy missiles(nano/MW), or just 108 missiles each per salvo. Next best missle spammer by my reckoning would be a morrigi drone DN full of missiles with missle heavy drones drones (18 drones = 36 missiles + 34 from the dred being 70 missiles.

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Re: Hunters *spoilers*

Post by ZedF » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:27 pm

Um, I suppose... but missile ships are notoriously short on DPS to begin with. Personally, if I were going for a missile-spam approach with a fleet, I'd want something a lot better at kiting the enemy fleet than a DN, and I'd want to make sure my missiles are on platforms where I can control the targeting and when those ships fire for proper salvoing (which leaves drones out.)

So missiles on hunters might make sense, if you're going for run-and-gun with the hunters, but I'm not so sure about the DN, especially if you want it to, say, go attack the planet or something while the hunters keep the enemy fleet busy. Also, a lot of the hunter mounts are fixed mounts -- I wouldn't be surprised if you can't put missiles in them (since you can't on strafe sections either.)
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

tpfleming12
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Re: Hunters *spoilers*

Post by tpfleming12 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:27 pm

Well there is the retreating the DN hunter carrier trick, so hypothetically a carrier group could drop there hunters off and retreat, then the hunters could kite the enemy with withering missile fire.

I was mainly interested if it is possible to get missiles past phasor point defense which in my limited experience seems virtually impregnable when fitted in sufficient numbers.

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whatamidoinghere
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Re: Hunters *spoilers*

Post by whatamidoinghere » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:48 pm

Loading up on MW helps, but you'll still need a sacrifice (have a torpedo arrive first/have a few drones come in to soak up fire).
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ZedF
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Re: Hunters *spoilers*

Post by ZedF » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:05 pm

Why not just go with something the phaser PD won't affect (i.e. direct fire weapons) instead of trying to power through the best counter in the game for seeking weaponry?

Incidentally, if you really want to do this and need a good lead torp to absorb PD fire, try a Pulsar torp. They are fired on by PD weapons, but are immune to being damaged by them.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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whatamidoinghere
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Re: Hunters *spoilers*

Post by whatamidoinghere » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:31 pm

I don't think PD fires on pulsars.
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ZedF
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Re: Hunters *spoilers*

Post by ZedF » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:29 pm

Oh? It used to (the seeking kind, not the direct fire EMP torps.) If it doesn't anymore, that's good actually.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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nickersonm
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Re: Hunters *spoilers*

Post by nickersonm » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:58 pm

Seeking EMP torps (pulsars) have never been targetable, which makes them both very annoying to defend against, and very nice to use.

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GammaPaladin
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Re: Hunters *spoilers*

Post by GammaPaladin » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:56 am

People always talk about certain weapons lagging their systems. Mine must be fairly good because I've never had it lag... Until today.

I was fielding a flag fleet of hunter carriers, so 3 Carrier DNs plus my Flagship to start with. I was maintaining an embargo over a Zuul planet, because I wanted to force the planet to surrender (Zuul slaves help make up for the fact that they've raped the planet's resources).

I got enough reinforcement points to have a 4th carrier DN enter the fray as well.

I should note that my Hunters were kitted out with DF racks in all their medium turrets.

So I have all four carriers deploy their Hunters, and we all approach the planet for one volley of weapons fire to convince them they might want to think about surrender.

I turned off hold fire with all 12 hunters in range, and they all opened fire with 14 DF racks each. 144 DF racks fired simultaneously, and my computer finally had it's framerate dip down to annoying levels ;)

It also turns out that 144 DF racks with AM warheads and 24 pulsed graviton beams is enough to glass a planet in one volley...

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