Tarka Dreadnoughts

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Re: Tarka Dreadnoughts

Post by Grizzam » Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:48 pm

To be honest, I have never viewed the tarka DN to be the 'best'. Maybe I am doing it wrong, but I have always viewed the tarka DN to have some very poor PD coverage combined with a somewhat unfocused weapons layout.

That is to say, there are a ton of turrets on that tarka DN that face either side, actually theres a somewhat withering array of tarka side-facing medium mounts that can be very powerful, but its easy to end up with ships that are either out of range or out of the angle of those side-facing turrets.

When we get into slightly more specialized sections, that can change and you can edit your DN for what you want, but I typically leave the 'special' combat sections for my cruisers: granted an impactor DN is both fun and effective.

Given that I can't rely on Tarka DN point defense to stop much of anything, I rarely use them to spearhead any major attacks. This delegates my Tarka DN to two roles: CNC and long-range support fire. I usually keep a couple of tarka intercept-DN only fleets to try new designs out with, but as fearsome as the tarka DN is, it has a mix of some fairly 'blind' spots, and some rather unfocused weapons arrays.

Some of the strong points of the tarka DN, is its well rounded weapons facing (in one sense this is a weakness in another it is a strength... if you form your fleets around your DN, particularly DN with cruiser escorts, you will get that nice 'spearhead' effect you are looking for).

Another seems to be that even though they are DN, they have a slim profile from the front and somewhat from the sides. They also seem to be fairly maneuverable as far as DN's go.

If I were in your shoes and had to assault numerous tarka DN, I'd probably try a couple different approaches to see which works best:

First, let me say that there is an area you do NOT want to be against a tarka DN (especially a battle bridge/armor DN) - and this area is pretty much a nice big half circle covering the front and sides of the DN. Between the copious amount of firepower capable of hitting these directions and the propability of trying to face down an array of heavy lasers, the only situation where I'd say approaching a tarka DN head on in is at full speed to try to get behind it. You may want to also try to make a very well packed blob of ships to assault it head on, but just be aware that fanning out to the sides once combat ensues is going to turn from facing down a fair amount of firepower to facing down nearly all that the tarka DN is capable of throwing at you.

That said, brawler DN's with sufficient armor could work for you if you can get your DN's past the forwards-half circle zone of the ship, and into the back. As the DN starts to turn to get a better bearing on your ships, try to micro manage your ships facing its broadside to keep moving about. Granted they are just destroyers but if you watch carefully you'll see for yourself the firepower the tarka DN packs that is capable of broadside-ish firing. Its not a ton but its probably more than enough if they are using AM cannons at this point.

Another option would be long range weapons such as tracking torps and missiles. I hesitate to say you should try this option first because with that kind of armor, its going to take a lot of firepower to take down a tarka DN, even if they have poor PD.

You could probably combine these strategies, make enough brawler-DE types to form an entire DN CNC wave and try to go for a maneuvering kill, keep your CNC fitted with missiles, long range weapons, and have the next wave of reinforcements be torp and missile fitted boats. I'm not a big fan of the hiver torp DE but it may actually work here.

As your brawlers go down, missile and torp ships should be coming in at long range. The Tarka DN will likely take the brawler-bait and maneuver to face them, giving you plenty of time to get your DN CNC aligned to run away. Once your brawlers go down, you'll have a full fleet of long range ships pick up where the brawlers may have left off: try to out maneuver the tarkas while drawing combat out for as long as possible. Let them eat every missile and torp until they pop.

Ballistics I would not personally recommend. While its a good idea initially, bringing bang-bang guns in pew-pew antimatter fights has never come out too well for me.

If you can land kinetic missiles though, that may be worth it. I've yet to see the AI handle them well, and you can shove a tarka DN so far out (heck any DN) with some kinetic missiles that it wont be coming back till next turn. The AI doesn't seem capable of withdrawing the ships that get flung so far out of the way that they wont make it back to combat in time, so its more or less playing on an AI weakness at times... but hey it works!

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Re: Tarka Dreadnoughts

Post by Nathan » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:51 am

The raw power of how awesome they look is why you're having trouble with them. Your commanders psychologically convince themselves that they've already lost when up against one, and it just goes down hill for you from there.

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Re: Tarka Dreadnoughts

Post by Kiith-sa » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:11 pm

Brieft Essay on Tarka DN:

Tarka DN are the pefect example of "bring a knife to a fist fight,a gun to a kinfe fight and don't fight a gun fight"

Tarkas Armor Dn are apparently specifiacly designed to fight assorted SMALLER vessles, since they have a high amount of mediums, larges and a few smalls all over the hull they don't really have "blind" spots(last time I checked the twin Large turrtets from the Tark Armor section get 360° radius wich is nasty for DD and Crs if you put some beams there) , they just have places wich make you less dead than others. Also theese guns are placed as to spread out their firing power over the ship, pherhaps concentrating along the foward arc though not that much. Taka Ships tend to move better when they get space to maneuver and not so well in cramped spaces, in fact the "slender" profile of Tark DNs tends to be a drawback when close range brawling with other DNs as they can't find the neither the space not the tunrning ratio they need to maneuver ( in my own experience they simply CAN'T turn over themselves, unlike Morrigi DN for example wich exel at this).

Altenativelly the numerous medium weapon "batteries" allow for varied ship types countermeasures ( I find the armor section central medium banks specially useful to place missiles, since Tarks usually get AM warheads they pack a decent punch and make the DN less vulnerable to stand off tactics

As I said a place where a Tark DN definetly does NOT exel is DN engagments.. a combination of poor turning in cramped spaces , lack of "bigga gunz" in most designs and poor ability to concentrate fire mean tarka DNs are rarely firing more than 50%-45% of they weapons at a DN.. this is arguably solved by engaging multiple DNs at the same time ,giving targets of oportunity to all turrets but this make the turning Issue even worse since the DN get trapped between its targets in mid-brawl and make the DN a viable target for the Dns its enaging as well, in other words it becomes a sitting duck.

While the Blazer or Barrage Dns pack a punch the tarka Dn weaknesses are even more pronounced int this desings as they lose even more turning power for the extra guns. SO, a heavy weapons Tarka Dn is best left slightly behind the actual combat or out of the Battle at all...

As for the Battle Rider I'd have to say it is an EXTREMELY successful solution to theese issues, The battle riders have an outstanding firepower and armor resistance , and since they are so fast and maneuverable, they are using all the weapons nearly all the time. The drawback is that a Good battle rider need research from practically every branch of the tree. A tarka that can filed them by turn 200 should consider himself lucky( at 100% research and industrial eff). BTW remeber the tarka AM hunter seems to be bugged do to large gun placement and the fact it has 970 turning speed ( WAY faster than liir or morrigi DD), so even at AM id pick the fusion Hunter as the AM hunter essentially looses firing power because of the lousy placement of the large turrets, though Insta-turning is tempting.

Summary :
Tarka DN Pros:
-lots of guns
-ability to fire well at almost any direction
-large amoutn of turrets allow for a varied configuration

-Low manuverability in cramped spaces (AKA Dn brawling)
-Bad a concentrating firepower
-Hopelessly outgunned (or outclassed?) by equal size ships
Im the Nomad of the Void...I come and go but never stay

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Re: Tarka Dreadnoughts

Post by Tor » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:32 am

I would like to add that you can actually deploy your STL-Hunters from your Tarka DN carrier and then "retreat to the back line" with your carrier. You get to keep your hunters in the battle and they seem to cost no command points. You may then proceed to bring in other carriers to deploy even more hunters and then you can overwhelm the enemy...

I think it could be called an exploit, but I haven't checked if it's a known bug or anything.

If you back this fleet up with some repair ships to replace lost hunters after the battle, your fleet can just keep going forever. Seems overpowered to me.

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Re: Tarka Dreadnoughts

Post by Mecron » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:34 am

its a known exploit.

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Re: Tarka Dreadnoughts

Post by Space Voyager » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:14 am

IMO it would be pretty cool if hunter carrier demanded all its operational hunters to be docked before retreating.

EDIT: this same system could be used for all kinds of drones, too. This would prevent the loss of drones when you are retreating - and make you think twice when to deploy them.
EDIT2: So when you'd hit the retreat button the drones of that carrier would turn immediately and go for docking.
Or at least all excess drones that could not find place on the remaining carriers. Hmmm, that could be complicated, but it would be cool - this way you would be able to send carriers into reserves when the drones are destroyed and not loose more - if you counted them correctly. :)
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Re: Tarka Dreadnoughts

Post by Ripost » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:53 am

Nah, they are remote controlled and unmanned anyway, abandoning them in no worse than leaving, say, a node missle, or a bio-weapon. Now, assuming the hunters are mannerd, then this behaviour from hunters might be an interesting suggestion.
-Ripost, incurable Newbie (and contagious, so keep away!)

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Re: Tarka Dreadnoughts

Post by Space Voyager » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:00 pm

Ripost wrote:Nah, they are remote controlled and unmanned anyway, abandoning them in no worse than leaving, say, a node missle, or a bio-weapon.

That is true. It is troublesome when you arrive with a drone and assault shuttle heavy fleet and forget how things work though.

I admit the current system is in most cases much more drone carrier friendly as they can haul arse faster. Assuming you have repair cruisers that is much more efficient.

I should have given the don't shoot command to the carriers than retrieve them. And I shouldn't have switched the assault shuttle carriers. I'll be more careful next time I guess. No guarantees though. :lol:
ErinysSolForce Intelligence has great difficulty penetrating Liir society to that depth, for obvious reasons. fibioLack of scuba gear?

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