All Aboard the Funbuss! (Zuul & abduction)

Discuss ships, sections, and designs.
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vallu751
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Re: All Aboard the Funbuss! (Zuul & abduction)

Post by vallu751 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:23 pm

Scavenger section is definitely not the way to go for Zuul battle cruisers. The higher cost compared to armor section comes simple from the cost of the weapons.

Scavenger section without weapons costs 14k in savings, armor 12k. Construction cost is also 300 higher, which equals 1500 in savings...

Scavengers just have only 6 small and 2 medium mounts. Zuul armor has 3 small, 4 medium and 3 large. And weapons cost money. Especially missile mounts, which should be stripped from early ship designs asap.

I would add that along the years there have been a lot of misconceptions of ERs being more cost effective in initial battles than armour DEs. Much of that notion comes from comparing an armor DE with missiles to an ER which doesn't have medium mounts. The missiles cost 3k a piece.

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Dr. Weird
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Re: All Aboard the Funbuss! (Zuul & abduction)

Post by Dr. Weird » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:30 pm

Strongly disagree & say scavengers ARE the way to go.

Your analysis is incomplete in counting the guns. I've had games where Zuul armors cost 120k an Scavengers 90K & change. So roughly If I've got 360K to spend fast to augment a fleet I can get 3 armors or 4 scavengers. Barring the heavy mounts, that equalizes the number of guns youre bringing to combat significantly (in fact in small & med mounts you now have more).

You'll always throw some armors into your formation for those big guns you mentioned, but considering how Zuul ships are made of tissue paper you'll NEED those scavengers to hold the line while the armors wail away on the enemy. The discs themselves not only absorb additional damage coming at the scavengers from below, once launched they can easily overwhelm an enemy formation w too many targets.

Not having scavengers as part of every zuul cruiser fleet a player has is simply not playing Zuul to their maximum/intended effect.
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vallu751
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Re: All Aboard the Funbuss! (Zuul & abduction)

Post by vallu751 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:46 pm

Interesting, I might have to consider having some Scavenger support with my battle fleets. I would still consider them secondary in role to front line battleships though. Getting 4 for the price of 3 isn't a selling point for me. In the cruiser era I very rarely have a bottleneck in the amount of cheap Zuul ships I can field, it's the command limit I'm more worried about. And that command limit usually gets filled with boarding cruisers and heavy damage hitters to augment them.

That said, using the disks to absorb enemy fire is just brilliant, my hat goes off to your Zuul thinking :thumbsup:

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Space Voyager
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Re: All Aboard the Funbuss! (Zuul & abduction)

Post by Space Voyager » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:44 am

Those discs can come in REALLY handy when attacking a planet - once you release a single one, all enemy ships will pursue it... Giving you the time to do what you need to do... Naturally you can release them periodically and buy more time.
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Mesaia
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Re: All Aboard the Funbuss! (Zuul & abduction)

Post by Mesaia » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:59 am

only works against the ai though

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vallu751
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Re: All Aboard the Funbuss! (Zuul & abduction)

Post by vallu751 » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:06 am

And only when you're attacking their planets.

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Profound_Darkness
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Re: All Aboard the Funbuss! (Zuul & abduction)

Post by Profound_Darkness » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:19 pm

Actually it works pretty well against me as well. I don't necessarily break formations but an infestation (especially a good one) tends to take that world out of production for a bit. Doesn't matter much as a Hiver but the AI has hit more than 1 target sometimes and that really hurts, so often my alpha strike goes to the drop pods.

[edit]
By observing the AI the best trick with the Zuul, besides overpowering your enemy with huge numbers of guns, is chaos. The Zuul often use weapons to screw with you in various ways. Zuul often show up to my parties with corrosive missiles (killing DE groups easily), PD Missiles (killing drones/tracking torps), copious command ships (usually more than 1 in an attack but not too many), some boarding pods (not counting the command ships), and of course disks. It's rare that my formations stay fully together on a good Zuul assault, especially once the Zuul starts bringing DNs to the party but even as CRs. Also the Zuul rarely have many of the EXACT same ships so no one good setup will always work, you have to be ready for just about anything.

On the occasions when they have gotten far into the tech tree I have seen Zuul include various gravity weapons to push my ships off from their intended targets. And fear the Zuul Impactors...

Very early on I have seen the Zuul use Emitters and MDs to great effect as well. Nearly forgot, Zuul almost always end up with some type of disabling torpedoes, usually they like the detonating variety (Pulsars?) in large numbers. Only DNs have much of a chance against these in which case my DNs usually end up fighting for the Zuul unless I am Hivers or have Phaser PD as Liir (and sometimes even still).
[/edit]
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