New and first game Ship reserve/enter combat question

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omnix32
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New and first game Ship reserve/enter combat question

Post by omnix32 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:58 pm

getting it handed to me by some bird people. Just bought the game and expansions (Galactic Civ fan) Updated to 2.7.2

I bring like 20 ships to a colony the enemy controls, yet my ships show up 2 at a time and get wasted. I use (R) for reserve, but (R) does nothing. The enemy has not problem picking off two at a time, and the AI has already taken one of my colony's.

I have the game on easy, but so far the game is not that fun. When looking at the Colony screen after battle, I have like 24 ships and the AI has like 26. The next turn we are fighting again, and I get my 2 ships against a bunch of his. This continues on until I run out of ships.

So far, I have not found a way to get all my ships in there and just get the battle over with for bad or good. If there is a way to use all your ships I am all ears, else this game may be a waste of time watching my few ships get picked off every turn, 4 min at a time.

If I have to move the combat time slider to get them in at 1 at a time, then it's time to push this one off as a bad purchase, and Load Galactic Civ.

So, Bottom line. When I send a fleet somewhere in a game, I expect them all to show up for the fight. Am I missing a option somewhere?

Thank you everyone.
Last edited by omnix32 on Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fiendishrabbit
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Re: New and first game Ship reserve/enter combat question

Post by fiendishrabbit » Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:05 pm

There is no way to get "all" of your ships on the screen at the same time.


But...
You need to field CnC ships.

Basically you get a number of commandpoints. 12 is the basic (enough for 2 cruisers), Destroyer CnCs give you 20 commandpoints (3 cruisers and 1 destroyer. Or 10 destroyers), Cruiser give you 36 (enough to field a total of 6 cruisers) etc etc

Then you can get more commandpoints from outer sources like technology (Combat Algorithms and Holographic Interface), outnumbering or racial bonuses (zuuls Commandships give them a lot more commandpoints than those of other races) but using commandships is the important part.

All of this was detailed in the tutorial.
You can't trust the Liir. Never trust someone that smiles all the time.

omnix32
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Re: New and first game Ship reserve/enter combat question

Post by omnix32 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:59 pm

Command Points????????????

I watched the Combat Tutorial. (again) I found the section on Command points in the Manual.

Right now, not doing so good for a first game. I found Battle computers, so that is now my next research coming up, says something about getting more command points.

My last battle the birdmen attacked one of my colony's. I had 30 ships in orbit there. This time I got a whole 4 to show up against their 10. They started with 20 something so, I assume all their ships did not make it to battle.

During the battle I saw 2 of their ships get destroyed, but after the battle they were missing way more than two (Down to 10 or so) and on the next turn I wiped them out.

Where did there ships go????? was something simulated, and is there really a point to fighting battles manually?

Thank you for the info fiendishrabbit I would have never guessed it was (Command points) that was the cause of the issue. I figured that ships in orbit where in close formation and having the same drive speed would arrive around the same time. (Command points??)

Anyway. Going to continue to give the game another chance. It seems OK, but not as funny or as fun as the AI in Galactic Civ.

Thank you for the Help, and if anyone has more tips. I am ready to listen.

Thanx once again.

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Space Voyager
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Re: New and first game Ship reserve/enter combat question

Post by Space Voyager » Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:10 pm

It may be just my personal opinion, but it would be plain wrong if you could pick up a (non-utterly-cliché) strategy game and do good in the first playthrough.

Do play some more. Than again, you might not want to - or you will end up passing on a lot of good games. I know I did as I went SotS only for like a year. :evil:
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ZedF
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Re: New and first game Ship reserve/enter combat question

Post by ZedF » Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:15 pm

There is lots of useful info in the wiki. It might help to look there. If you're having trouble with tactical combat, here is a good place to start:
http://sots.rorschach.net/Tactical_Combat

Also, the TAR forum has lots of game reports in it which you can use as an example of how others have played the game. Several are good reads, others are very informative, some are both.

There are also many useful and informative threads in the general discussion forum, that it could be helpful to browse through. For instance:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16124
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

omnix32
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Re: New and first game Ship reserve/enter combat question

Post by omnix32 » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:56 pm

Thank you everyone!!!!!

I just got my butt handed to me on easy with one enemy... (Tutorial mind you.)

I kept researching weapons, I found those command point research. (Not that it allowed many more ships, but birdman has lots per battle.)

I tried to keep 30 or more ships per colony, and CHOMP. All gone.

The bird People were aggressive from the start, Not heard a peep out of them about anything. Just mopping me all over space.

So, If you peeps think its a good game, then I won't doubt you, but I must really suck.

going back to reading more................sigh.........

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Mecron
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Re: New and first game Ship reserve/enter combat question

Post by Mecron » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:09 pm

Try to wrap your head around the idea that the US navy does NOT show up at every battle with every ship it owns and they all fight at the same time. At any given moment there is a finite number of vessels that can be commanded and controlled in any given battle in the real world. SotS abstracts that into command points and CnC ships since battle is core to SotS as opposed to a peripheral issue as in other 4X games.

Each size class of ships has a CnC section for it which allows you to control a correspondingly larger number of ships in combat. You should probably read up on how the reinforcement list works so that once youare using command ships properly, you will also be getting the ships you want arriving in the order you want to replace ships that are dying in battle.

omnix32
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Re: New and first game Ship reserve/enter combat question

Post by omnix32 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:52 am

Thanx everyone!!!! OK, this is not such a bad game after all. I hung in there. After many attacks on my Home World I was able to advance some using everybody's advice. Several hours latter, I just now got their home planet.

I still must suck, because it's on easy with one enemy, and I had a rough time, but I own their main planet now.

At turn 526 the game is still going, so I assume that every last birdman must die...... suites me, they never liked me from the start.

ya, I can see the strategic side and new element command points make. Like the navy. Thanx Mecron!!!

I would ask for more tips, but I suppose there are other threads for that.

Back to turn 527.... The rest of them have to be somewhere.

have fun :D

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fiendishrabbit
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Re: New and first game Ship reserve/enter combat question

Post by fiendishrabbit » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:32 am

If you develop xenotechnology with the appropriate race (the 5th level of xenotech, Subjugate [Insert Species here]) you can most often force the surrender of an empire that is clearly losing. As long as they're aware that they're clearly losing.
That tends to shorten the mop-up phase.
You can't trust the Liir. Never trust someone that smiles all the time.

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silvaril
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*shrug* Certainly I prefer them to surrender... :)

Post by silvaril » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:36 am

Heya

Now you've figured out CnC: ;)

Researching the enemy Xeno-Tech will allow you to eventually demand their surrender as an Empire.

It is higher up the tree than you might want to go for, especially on a one-vs-one game, but in your subsequent games it will reduce what some feel to be the tedium of the end-game colony hunt... :D
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Profound_Darkness
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Re: New and first game Ship reserve/enter combat question

Post by Profound_Darkness » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:38 pm

As far as them realizing they are loosing - it's often a good idea to show them all your worlds before demanding surrender (show worlds, end turn, demand surrender). Make sure you have the xeno tech on them first though...
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Herknav
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Re: New and first game Ship reserve/enter combat question

Post by Herknav » Sun May 30, 2010 7:10 pm

Please please please remember SotS is not like GalCiv, so applying those strategies will likely not work.

CnC is super important. Most games don't do a decent job of simulating it. SotS does. You said you have 30 ships in orbit. I assume they are all armor mission section ships. Imagine them as Army Privates. They have guns and they know how to kill. But who tells them what/when/how? And who coordinates it? Put that force against 5 privates and a seargent and I would take the smaller force every time. CnC allows the parts to work together better.

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Hamann
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Re: New and first game Ship reserve/enter combat question

Post by Hamann » Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:08 am

Also, once you field some command ships you will be able to set up formations and groups prior to battle, which helps a lot when using special ships like mine-layers and assault shuttles.
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