DN only v DN and CR escorts?

Discuss ships, sections, and designs.
User avatar
Karas^^
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:29 am

Re: DN only v DN and CR escorts?

Post by Karas^^ » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:45 am

In my last Hiver game I had great success with an EW Armada CNC paired with a couple of BB/Impactor/AM dreads.
Fill the large and medium slots with heavy and regular AM cannons respectively, and your strongest heavy beam in the beam slots. I only rolled HCLs, but with lancers or cutting beams they would have been truely fearsome. At least to the tarka I fought, since he didn't have neither shields nor deflectors.

I'll admit I threw in some cruisers when I rolled kelvinic torpedos though. Kelvinics support cruisers + impactor and AM volleys = lots of dead enemies :D
Man is limited, not so much by what is impossible, but by what he thinks is impossible.

User avatar
Crazyshak48
Posts: 127
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:04 am

Re: DN only v DN and CR escorts?

Post by Crazyshak48 » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:11 pm

I use both types of fleets, for different reasons. I like using three dreadnought-two cruiser fleets for dealing with the heaviest opposition and groups of enemy dreadnoughts. On the other hand, I'll use an Armada CnC (usually with an AI command section so it can keep up with the cruisers) leading a pack of eight cruisers of varying type on the field for dealing with less heavily defended planets or for defending my own. The other thing I like about a cruiser fleet is that it can suffer a lot more attrition than a dreadnought fleet on the front line and still be combat ready. If I have eight cruisers on the field and eight more in reserve, I can lose ten and still be fairly effective, whereas losing 3/4 of your dreadnoughts in a DN heavy fleet can put that fleet out of action for several turns, especially if you're far from your best industrial planets. Additionally, cruisers are easier to repair and easier to replace at frontier worlds than dreadnoughts are if they are chewed up or destroyed. But, it's hard to argue with the bone-splitting punch of two assault/barrage dreadnoughts and two BB/war cruisers with an EWAR/Armada CnC providing support. Both have their advantages, and I typically build up both fleet types about equally.

User avatar
ProjectLevyDelta
Posts: 3945
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:42 am

Re: DN only v DN and CR escorts?

Post by ProjectLevyDelta » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:15 pm

Does no one bother to get flagships? They do field one extra DN :D

Also for Tarkas since I play them I like to go up the drone tree to riders and use a DN fleet with a Flag ship to boast in 4 different dreads with 9 cruiser riders in groups of 3 different rider builds :shock: 13 ships are very nice especially in DN fights.

Now when not using Tarkas I play Zuul which once you get to DN just fielding an Armada CNC with some DN boring ships is the same as lining up thoughs 8 cruiser boring ships in fusion era and firing off that nasty node cannon line, only the ships are bigger :wink:

Gotta love a nice DN fight when your enemy expecting a fair ship vs ship combat and you just turn around blast him with 3 node cannons into the great unknown node space where they usually die... well always die :bangdesk:
Image

James296
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 6:06 am

Re: DN only v DN and CR escorts?

Post by James296 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:49 pm

I always field a flagship, with it being place somewhere around my empire in it's own fleet, through I usually try and save it for when I have the max i can get for armor and weapons in my tech tree. as far as my dreads, I build them with the mind that their biggest and baddest ships out there. meaning that I build, depending on what the tree gives me, to take the punishment and "return to sender" so to speak. althrough, there's been a couple of times I've thought about and even included CRs in my, usually, DN only fleets. in truth, sometimes there's niches that only a CR and/or a DE can fill.
AMD FX8320 OC to 4.4ghz,ASUS Crosshair V-Z mobo, 8(2x4gb) 1600mhz Gskill sniper RAM, Asus GTX 670, 180gb SSD, and 1TB HD with a 620w Seasonic PSU (striped and retired)

Current: Intel 4790K(stock clock), MSI Gaming 7 Z97 mobo, 8gb 1600mhz Ram, EVGA GTX 980, 1TB SDD 750w PSU

You want to know what I'm doing...I"ll tell you when I figure that out

User avatar
ProjectLevyDelta
Posts: 3945
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:42 am

Re: DN only v DN and CR escorts?

Post by ProjectLevyDelta » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:09 pm

Ahh expensive DN hmm.. ever try a all red laser DN :shock: it be cheap :bangdesk:

As such noted that expensive DN would do little good in Multiplayer if enemy is Zuul and fields Cruisers or DN :|

Since you will more than likely get node cannoned into oblivion alot faster then you will get Blazer blasted :wink:
Image

User avatar
AlanF5
Posts: 1492
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:14 pm

Re: DN only v DN and CR escorts?

Post by AlanF5 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:37 pm

Bore ships of any size are among the most expensive ships a Zuul can field. Against an MP opponent who liked to use more than one in combat, I would either try drones and try to stay out of node cannon range or dispersed swarms of torpedo destroyers.

Maybe Corrosive missiles to punish the bore ships for holding still, or impactors to prevent them from lining up.

Bores also have a slower strategic speed than non-bore fleets, so I would be even more motivated to counter-strike the Zuul front while a bore fleet was incoming to my worlds.
Download my zombie outbreak mini-sim: unfortunately, it's not Fort Zombie.

Winner of the "Guess what the zerker discs are an homage to?" race. (The Mandarin's ten rings)

User avatar
ProjectLevyDelta
Posts: 3945
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:42 am

Re: DN only v DN and CR escorts?

Post by ProjectLevyDelta » Fri Dec 10, 2010 7:42 pm

This is true ;) their are downfalls, but if used correctly they can be dangerous. Also I was commenting on full DN fleets where you wouldn't normally have DE or Drones :D

Although you have to admit people get pretty shocked when all 18 of thoughs cruisers in fusion era you sent to their planet were all Boring ships with a cnc vessels.. turns out they only got to go OMG!! and then boom they all in nodespace :bangdesk:
Image

ZedF
Board Ninja
Board Ninja
Posts: 12582
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:13 pm

Re: DN only v DN and CR escorts?

Post by ZedF » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:51 pm

Generally the goal of the Zuul player will be to reach a dominant position before the DN era. ;)

While the node cannon is indeed useful, esp in SP, in MP node bores are overall more a vulnerability than a source of strength for the Zuul. Going up against an opponent who understands how to stymie your racial strengths and capitalize on your racial weaknesses makes a big difference!
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

Draba
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:03 am

Re: DN only v DN and CR escorts?

Post by Draba » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:53 am

The thing with DNs is that they don't get blasted to oblivion in the initial strikes, like cruisers( and destroyers, of course ) tend to. You can field more of the smaller ships with the same monetary cost, but by the time DNs pop up construction and command point costs/mobility are the dominant limiting factors. Even if you strip them of some turrets, DNs will decimate an equal amount of cruisers/destroyers without significant losses.

So larger ships tend to have more firepower and armor than any possible combination of lighter ones AND
there is more chance for them to survive the initial clash and get pulled back for free repairs( which means you got to kick
ass with no additional cost on your side ).
Of course there are cases when cruisers are better in a specific role( like BB/blazer morrigi for heavy beams and a general terminator role,
liir assault/barrage for torpedoes ), but I would still favor the DN's sturdiness.

IMHO for direct confrontation dread>cruiser>destroyer.
The only case where smaller ships are almost mandatory are enemies with the friggin disintegration beam,
like the peacekeeper and vn constructs.

Redeyes
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:09 pm

Re: DN only v DN and CR escorts?

Post by Redeyes » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:55 pm

How useful are the small slots on DNs? I always put PD everywhere, but I figure it might actually be a good idea to use some for Pulse Phasers or AP drivers...

User avatar
Coyote27
Posts: 2958
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:13 am

Re: DN only v DN and CR escorts?

Post by Coyote27 » Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:29 pm

They're as useful as on any other ship... aside from PPs, I'd think sniper cannons would be a good bet for the extra range too. Of course, on a dread I'd rather maximise the large turret potential as much as I can.
"In the absence of any orders, go find something and kill it." -Erwin Rommel

Redeyes
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:09 pm

Re: DN only v DN and CR escorts?

Post by Redeyes » Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:46 pm

Coyote27 wrote:They're as useful as on any other ship... aside from PPs, I'd think sniper cannons would be a good bet for the extra range too. Of course, on a dread I'd rather maximise the large turret potential as much as I can.

I was thinking of something like "if I put pulse pashers in my 28 small slots, will their damage even begin to compare to my 8 Heavy Antimatter Cannons and 24 regular Antimatter cannons ? (Morrigi AI/COL/AM setup.)

Looking at the number I'm starting to think that there's no way ever the pulse phasers would be worth it... unless you're facing destroyers that love to get into your face, in which case they would destroy every fourth second or so.

Numbers wise pulse phasers seem about as good as an antimatter cannon at close range and one third of the heavy cannon. That's compared to end-game weaponry so it looks as if they'll add plenty of punch in some cases, pretty useful if you are stuck with technologies below the high end (i.e. Fusion Cannons, non-neutronium drivers, positron beams.)

I think I'm going to try a Liir AI/War/Antimatter setup now, 22 pulse phasers, 3 Heavy antimatter Cannons, and all the accuracy you could ever need :D
Edit: the resulting setup brings 50% firepower both at long and short range than the corresponding Morrigi Dreadnought, increased firepower is totally a reason to bring cruisers over Dreadnoughts. Bit of a shame theoretical exercises tell nothing about fire arcs. Do cruisers or dreadnoughts tend to have better firing arcs?

NJM
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:33 am

Re: DN only v DN and CR escorts?

Post by NJM » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:30 am

Well, in relation to the Morrigi the DN firing arcs are all forward facing on a ship that can turn relatively quickly and must be taken into consideration. In my opinion cruisers have better arcs due to their maneuverability, but most DNs can bear more forward firepower and have that nice ability to not lose sections. Even though your cruisers deal 50% damage compared to a Morrigi DN they die a lot quicker which is where DPS comes into play.

johndunk
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 4:37 pm

Re: DN only v DN and CR escorts?

Post by johndunk » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:29 am

I'll note one opponent-dependant item I hadn't realized until last week. Liir with Improved Reflectivity vs. my Pulse Phasers. I'd never noticed before that Pulse Phasers are classed as "lasers" and thus can make a really pretty reflective spray against improved reflective armor.
SotS1: CC 1.8.0 - SotS2: 18864b

User avatar
Kimori
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:54 pm

Re: DN only v DN and CR escorts?

Post by Kimori » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:36 am

Facing an opponent with Imp Reflective over large parts of their fleet, I think I'd just load up my smalls with PD options. And then maybe pull out a Pulse Phaser surprise when they start skipping coatings to save money.

I haven't played every race in the game up to the DN era yet, but of those I have I prefer various different forms of standard fleet deployment, dependent on how strong races' CRs are compared to their DNs. For instance, it's already been mentioned that Hiver CRs are already tough and will respond much better to repositioning orders than the DNs will - I'll usually have either just the CnC DN with a bunch of cruisers, or CnCDN + a mainline fighting DN with a smaller set of cruisers screening them. And likely a deepscan DE or two playing tagalong.

Morrigi? DNs all the way, unless I need sections that don't appear there.

Post Reply

Return to “The Ships”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests