How does Scuttling work?

Discuss ships, sections, and designs.
Post Reply
Sentenza
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:46 pm

How does Scuttling work?

Post by Sentenza » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:02 pm

When I research a new techmology I update all my designs, but designs can't be retrofitted (except missiles, which are automagically retrofitted).

What do you guys do with Fleets that are either a) slightly obsolete (small changes) or b) massively obsolete (large changes, such as new engines or going from DE to CN)?
Options I can think of:
Scuttling at your largest planet for +1 resource per DE (Does that also refund any part of the IO cost or the Savings cost?)
Gathering them somewhere and sending them on suicide runs when more than ~5 ships.
Letting them defend some borderworld your army isn't at.

Just taking them along with your new fleet is not an option imho, they don't die first, and take up CP that could be more efficiently used.

I guess this boils down to:
How much of the IO and Savings are refunded on a scuttle?

From my tests it seems about 50% of the IO is refunded, but will only work for Ship construction, not to generate extra savings, and 0% of the savings are refunded.

Anyone else have any insight?

ZedF
Board Ninja
Board Ninja
Posts: 12581
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:13 pm

Re: What to do with obsolete designs?

Post by ZedF » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:26 pm

Sentenza wrote:When I research a new techmology I update all my designs, but designs can't be retrofitted (except missiles, which are automagically retrofitted).

Yep. In SotS2 limited refits are possible, but there are realistic limitations on what you can do refit-wise.

What do you guys do with Fleets that are either a) slightly obsolete (small changes) or b) massively obsolete (large changes, such as new engines or going from DE to CN)?

Generally, small changes do not make your ships unviable in combat, so I would keep using them as long as they can keep up operationally.

If they are too slow or fragile to keep up they become a second-line garrison force. I find that old destroyer squadrons can be merged into strikeforces relatively easily and used for garrison purposes; at the very least they can buy time for main forces to rush to the defense, and they also help with outnumbering bonus.

For old cruisers that can no longer keep up with my main combat forces I will either scrap them or throw them into the fray as a diversionary group. I don't like obsolete cruisers to stick around for too long as the maintenance cost is considerably higher than destroyers, so I don't mind sending them on a death or glory charge into enemy territory. :)

Just taking them along with your new fleet is not an option imho, they don't die first, and take up CP that could be more efficiently used.

Not necessarily true; in SotS1 they will sit in the back behind your main combat forces and give outnumbering bonus (representing space control abilities due to having a large fleet.) But it's true that you don't want to slow your fleet down just for outnumbering bonus, so old/slow fleets are more useful defensively to support a main fleet than they are offensively.

How does Scuttle work exactly?
How much of the IO and Savings are refunded?

Well the main benefit of scuttling is that you get a significant portion of the I/O cost of the ship returned as a temporary one-turn bonus to new construction in the system. (You also get a very small permanent resource boost. You don't get any of the savings cost back, though.)

This is basically how refitting works in SotS1; you scrap old ships to help build new ships that replace them.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

Sentenza
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:46 pm

Re: How does Scuttling work?

Post by Sentenza » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:51 pm

Thanks a lot for the comprehensive answers! :)

You mention outnumbering bonus, I found this on the wiki:
http://sots.rorschach.net/Command_points

And I'm a bit confused, does that mean I would have to put 20 DEs in combat? Or does it simply mean I have to have 20 DEs in my fleet, but can just field CRs into combat?

ZedF
Board Ninja
Board Ninja
Posts: 12581
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:13 pm

Re: How does Scuttling work?

Post by ZedF » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:30 pm

If you just want the destroyers for the command points, then they only need to be in your fleet's reserves. So if you have a fleet with 20 cruisers and 20 destroyers, and your opponent has a fleet with 10 cruisers, and all your cruisers are ahead of your destroyers in the fleet's reserve list, then you'll get to field your basic fleet plus however many cruisers the outnumbering bonus from 10 cruisers + 20 destroyers will get you (which IIRC should be 2 extra cruisers.)

Outnumbering is a bit more powerful defensively than it is offensively, because smaller ships can prevent larger enemy ships from counting towards being outnumbered before the caps on outnumbering bonus are considered. So if an enemy has 60 cruisers and you only have 20, but you have 40 destroyers as well, then they should get no outnumbering bonus. This helps a smaller but more technically capable fleet survive combat with an overwhelming enemy fleet; as long as they can keep enough cruisers in good repair the destroyers will never have to take the field.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

Post Reply

Return to “The Ships”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest