Rebirth of Silver Imperium civilian technology

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Gwenio
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Re: Rebirth of Silver Imperium civilian technology

Post by Gwenio » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:53 pm

Azrael Ultima wrote:Third option would be that due to the actions of the silver empire, we now have a stable equilibrium, so it doesn't work anymore. Once the avalanche goes off, it doesn't roll back up the mountain. But it might snow again in the future...


All the more reason to research it, as they would not have to worry about it and could use it elsewhere if they learned to control it; however, that is moot because it has been stated that it can... which means it will need to be studied enough to learn how to keep it from happening again.

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Erinys
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Re: Rebirth of Silver Imperium civilian technology

Post by Erinys » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:48 pm

Jabbawocky wrote:A question has occurred to me: when matter is brought over the Meniscus (either way), it retains it's properties, yes? i.e. antimatter from the antimatter side remains antimatter when brought over to the matter side of the Meniscus..? Is there any way to preform a 'matter/antimatter transform' of sorts?


Yes. There is one technological marvel in the SotSverse which might achieve this feat...but it would be a one-time feat and a one-way ticket. ;)

Furthermore, out of curiosity, can the Meniscus be thought of having a 'thickness' (by that I mean an internal 3d space?


:twisted:

Yes indeed. The Meniscus is "thick" enough that it can be split into something at least the size of a Tarkasian ship.

This may be a nerdy question, but what happens when a particle crosses the Meniscus "sort themselves to the proper side"? Does it require to be in an excited state to pull it off? Or is the tendency for particles to cross the Menicus a kind of force, and by crossing the Meniscus it emits energy (presumably in the form of a photon) because it has 'lost' the potential 'Meniscus energy' by crossing over?


*chuckles* Aren't you an antimatter researcher? I would think that answering these equations would be more in your line. All you have to do is posit that I am correct--that fifty percent of the matter and energy in the universe is on the other side of a Menisceal barrier. Once you recognize that the Mirror of Creation is present, its properties have already been pre-observed in many respects. All you have to do is ask yourself how this possible explanation fits in with various observable phenomena and pre-existing theories: the expansion of the universe, cosmic background radiation, quantum entanglement, etc.

Just to try to set you on the right track, however...I think you can take as a given that the Meniscus is the ultimate emitter and absorber.

Jabbawocky wrote: (I feel a right bast**d right now to be honest - but I can't really help it since I'm an antimatter researcher.


Mistyped. Corrected.

As to the modern use of Dark Phlogiston to explain the holes in all the equations...I agree, it's nonsense. I think that my explanation, however simple, makes far more intuitive sense, and explains the hidden presence of at least 50% of the matter and energy in the universe. It doesn't solve the problem completely, but the matrix of Nodelines which quilt the fabric of space-time by joining together the gravity wells via subspace corridors is perhaps another part of the solution.

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Jabbawocky
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Re: Rebirth of Silver Imperium civilian technology

Post by Jabbawocky » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:15 am

Erinys wrote:Yes. There is one technological marvel in the SotSverse which might achieve this feat...but it would be a one-time feat and a one-way ticket. ;)

...


Dare I ask, what is this technological wonder? & by it being a one-time feat do you mean that this wonder 'consumed' by its use(so the machine is one-time), or is it more of an avalanche analogy & its use depleted the potential energy that has built up..? Or would you rather keep this information secret at this time?


Erinys wrote:...

*chuckles* Aren't you an antimatter researcher? I would think that answering these equations would be more in your line. All you have to do is posit that I am correct--that fifty percent of the matter and energy in the universe is on the other side of a Menisceal barrier. Once you recognize that the Mirror of Creation is present, its properties have already been pre-observed in many respects. All you have to do is ask yourself how this possible explanation fits in with various observable phenomena and pre-existing theories: the expansion of the universe, cosmic background radiation, quantum entanglement, etc.

Just to try to set you on the right track, however...I think you can take as a given that the Meniscus is the ultimate emitter and absorber.

...


I should clarify - I'm an experimentalist rather than a theoretician & while I have a decent grasp of quantum mechanics, I am but a layman in comparison to some of my colleges. Still, I *think* I know where your going with this & it is intriguing...

Erinys wrote:...

As to the modern use of Dark Phlogiston to explain the holes in all the equations...I agree, it's nonsense. I think that my explanation, however simple, makes far more intuitive sense, and explains the hidden presence of at least 50% of the matter and energy in the universe. It doesn't solve the problem completely, but the matrix of Nodelines which quilt the fabric of space-time by joining together the gravity wells via subspace corridors is perhaps another part of the solution.

--Arinn


Dark Phlogiston? HA! Good call - I rather like the image that conjures :D. Yes - your explanation does make more sense than the current theory. That said, I would likely be outed by the physics community if they knew of my personal feelings on the subject - the general relativists are well respected & Einstein is treated as something of a god. Not that I'm saying Einstein was completely wrong, just that he is like Newton before him - there were some elements of truth in his work, but his theory is old, full of holes/anomalies & waiting for the next stage of development. Personally I subscribe to the "Process Physics" theory (the main book is mirrored here for those interested - though the website it is mirrored on worries me... :?), though I honestly find the creator of the theory to be a zealot & I feel the theory is not complete but a step in the right direction. Anyway I have probably brought this thread far off topic. My apologies.

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Mecron
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Re: Rebirth of Silver Imperium civilian technology

Post by Mecron » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:44 pm

never fear...when it comes to "Dark Phlogiston" you are amongst friends here. We will hide you in the cellar when the Inquisition comes for you :thumbsup:

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Re: Rebirth of Silver Imperium civilian technology

Post by Jabbawocky » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:12 pm

Mecron wrote:never fear...when it comes to "Dark Phlogiston" you are amongst friends here. We will hide you in the cellar when the Inquisition comes for you :thumbsup:


Thanks! It's good to be among fellow Dark Phlogiston apostates for once :D

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Re: Rebirth of Silver Imperium civilian technology

Post by Querente » Sun May 15, 2011 12:13 am

I do not post much, but I love the lore and mysteries that are part of the Sotverse.

Here is my intake/theories on the dissappearance of the Tarka worlds.

First, it was planned by the Tarkans themselves. Not the actual result ofcourse, that was a disaster. It was the Tarkan own arrogance that lead to their downfall. Not the Hivers, not Species Y ,not even time-travelling Zuul.

One option is that they were planning to use a combination of their own technology and hiver gate technology to get themselves right at the Hiver Queen and end the war with one big deep invasion, a tactical strike right at the Hiver Queens homeworld. This is generally based on the scientists they gathered and the "new type of fleet, for a new type of conquest". Both entry point and exit points were both affected. At the entry point, the worlds vanished/obliterated and at the target (exit) point, the Queen disappeared. I have no data in what manner the Queen disappeared (just herself, her whole planet, or an explosion of energy as dark matter mixed with normal matter?).

If the target was not the Hivers, perhaps they acted too arrogant (read: stupid) and wanted to enter the realm of the other side, penetrating the meniscus (if it has a thickness, it has a border and it can be punctured and so they released "dark hell", obliterating themselves. Trying to conquer the negative universe on the other side of the mirror ,would be considered a new type of conquest with a new type of fleet that was made to handle an anti-matter environment. The resulting disaster also affected the Hivers with their Gates, resulting in the loss of their Queen. For Hivers, it was not that hard to deduce which monkey was stupid enough to penetrate the meniscus completely, as the tarkan warp drives were already based on the same theories as the Hiver Gate system.

As only Tarkan worlds/systems were affected, I can only assume that the Tarkan scientist used the gravity wells of their own planets to create an empire-spanning wide "Gate", or atleast giving it a gate-value great enough to transport the Tarkast greatest fleet in one fell sweep. Rather then creating many "gates", they created one big one between their world.

As everyone knows, to properly enter the other mirror universe through a rabbit-hole , you will need the guide of a white rabbit first.

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Re: Rebirth of Silver Imperium civilian technology

Post by erdrik » Sun May 15, 2011 4:16 am

Querente wrote:... For Hivers, it was not that hard to deduce which monkey was stupid enough to penetrate the meniscus completely, as the tarkan warp drives were already based on the same theories as the Hiver Gate system...

IIRC, the Hivers and Tarks are not aware that their drives operate on the same principles.

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Re: Rebirth of Silver Imperium civilian technology

Post by The Earl of Emsworth » Sat May 28, 2011 1:07 pm

Hmm - interesting, very interesting - I personally provisionally subscribe to the above theory that in trying to penetrate through the Meniscus ( I presume in an attempt to gain a foothold there in the erroneous belief it might lead to another universe, simply through overarching ambition) they destroyed themselves - Hiver legends view it as Hell, so it is probably not too spiffy a place to be stuck in (I do not myself subscribe to a Warhammer esque literal hell, rahter some sort of ghastly void that, for a brief period, was superimposed over our universe, wiping out the Empire) very fitting, nicely rounded theory.

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Re: Rebirth of Silver Imperium civilian technology

Post by Kaan'Ish » Sat May 28, 2011 4:20 pm

The Earl of Emsworth wrote:Hmm - interesting, very interesting - I personally provisionally subscribe to the above theory that in trying to penetrate through the Meniscus ( I presume in an attempt to gain a foothold there in the erroneous belief it might lead to another universe, simply through overarching ambition) they destroyed themselves - Hiver legends view it as Hell, so it is probably not too spiffy a place to be stuck in (I do not myself subscribe to a Warhammer esque literal hell, rahter some sort of ghastly void that, for a brief period, was superimposed over our universe, wiping out the Empire) very fitting, nicely rounded theory.


Well, it's not a dungeon dimension per se, but a mirror for our own in certain regards (amount of matter, presumably physical laws, etc), only made out of antimatter. Any large scale penetration of the meniscus would have had a rather final result for those portions of both dimensions so exposed.

The idea seems unlikely as a matter/antimatter annihilation on the scale needed to remove the Silver Imperium would have emissions that could be picked up loud and clear. Sort of like a series of really big cinematic explosions in a darkened room. The total lack of any astronomical clues (or at least, to the best of my knowledge as the timeline stands) for all interested parties would suggest something a little less showy as the fate of the old Tarka worlds.

Possibly the Tarka did something that caused the universe to shrug. It is, to some perspective, alive, after all. The thing is, there's not much (if anything) in current SotS science that could do so. After all, the Zuul node-bores don't seem to cause enough irritation despite the fact that they're digging tunnels through the flesh of creation. The System Killer's destructive activities don't cause the universe to notice (if the analogy is appropriate). I'm drawn to the menisceal theories that were being bandied around. What if they somehow became permanently merged with the meniscus? Is such a thing possible? It has been established that it is itself, to some degree, a physical object, a thickness, etc. Could the old Tarka still be stuck in cracks between the layers?

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Re: Rebirth of Silver Imperium civilian technology

Post by The Earl of Emsworth » Sun May 29, 2011 7:23 am

Ah, I forgot about it not being picked up - what a nuisance, a huge matter/antimatter shift was very neat.

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Re: Rebirth of Silver Imperium civilian technology

Post by nighthaunt » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:47 am

We seem to be ruling out the experiment gone wrong - which seems from the evidence the most likely.

Maybe a new faster drive system (read a quote saying that the Tarka were building a new fleet of ships at the homeworld just before the collapse), and if you think about it if the experiment occured at the homeworld, but its effect spread outwards from the homeworld without effecting the homeworld, the effect would lessen over distance - think about a balloon - the more you blow it up the thinner the rubber gets at any point. Both Moriggi and Hiver records show that the effect lessened as distance increased from the Tarka homeworld till the effect stopped (or was to weak to effect remaining systems).

In a supernova systems immediately surround the one that went nova would just be gone (for all practical purposes) but as the distance from the epicentre increases the damage (or effects) would lessen.

This suggests that whatever happened originated at the Tarka homeworld, since the effects all lessen with distance from the homeworld, and since it was the Tarka homeworld it must have been an accident - as they sure didnt want to lose their colonies. This leaves an experiment gone wrong as the most likely cause, and with the new fleet of ships being built before the collapse, and the loss of all of these new ships in the hiver attack, this would explain the lack of any evidence as to the cause. This is pure speculation based on the evidence, but it seems most likely to me until I hear how wrong I am from on high ;)
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Re: Rebirth of Silver Imperium civilian technology

Post by Simetra » Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:19 am

IIRC the homeworld was at this point more of a backwater planet, the capital was somewhere else. So a high-tech scientific experiment would mostly not happen on the homeworld but somewhere else ;)

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Re: Rebirth of Silver Imperium civilian technology

Post by nighthaunt » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:48 pm

Did the Tarka create a new capitol or a regional capital - can't find the lore bit but i think I remember them saying about a regional capital. Also why then be building a fleet of new ships at the homeworld if it was a backwater?
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Re: Rebirth of Silver Imperium civilian technology

Post by Simetra » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:19 pm

Erinys wrote:Tarka worlds, including the new imperial capitol


Question answered? It was a capitol - who needs a regional capitol for a relative dense, round, 25 planets cluster? ;)

And I'm not sure it was stated that the new fleet was built on the HW, but if somebody corrects me!? :thumbsup:

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Re: Rebirth of Silver Imperium civilian technology

Post by Gwenio » Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:12 am

Simetra wrote:Question answered? It was a capitol - who needs a regional capitol for a relative dense, round, 25 planets cluster? ;)

And I'm not sure it was stated that the new fleet was built on the HW, but if somebody corrects me!? :thumbsup:


Search this topic for 'conquest'. As I recall, it was decided that "a new fleet, for a new type of conquest" (or whatever) meant the first FTL capable spaceships and not something new they came up with later.

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