Incident at Ko'Grappa

All things Human, Hiver, Tarka, Liir, Zuul and Morrigi.

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Rorschach
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Post by Rorschach » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:25 pm

In regards to the Suul'ka I think if you have enough power to enslave an entire world why would you stop with just one? There could be a whole bunch of former/current Suul'ka thralls out there.

Hunpecked, I think for gameplay reasons HR ranges are random from game to game but we haven't been told what the compatibility is for the storyline universe of SotS. It could be that the Humans and Tarkas are very compatible environment wise.

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Post by Blazer » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:27 am

They think they are bears, they want us to think they are bears.



Image

No one said the fur was grown by the slavers, we're just left to believe it was perhaps left behind by them. :wink:
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Post by Coyote27 » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:07 am

Hunpecked wrote: As for the "personal touch", perhaps the deacon's treatment was simple retaliation for resisting, with the method inspired by a handy crucifix.



Or perhaps there was just a *serious* misunderstanding of the religious practices. :p

Blazer wrote:No one said the fur was grown by the slavers, we're just left to believe it was perhaps left behind by them. :wink:


Maybe they're really into mink coats.
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Post by evrett77 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:30 am

do takra preists like have egg fetishes or are there lizard alter boys ?
Last edited by evrett77 on Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Erinys
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Post by Erinys » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:34 pm

evrett77 wrote:to takra preists like have egg fetishes or are there lizard alter boys ?


Tarka converts to Catholicism are going to have to work out a good many social and biological issues, not least being that Tarkas have very different sexual taboos than humans do. ;)

It would take a bit of finagling to make the human spiritual metaphor make any sense to them. For example, the story of Eve and her Apple would probably be edited in the Tarka version of Genesis; to a Tarka it would be more meaningful if the first Female gave the first Male a forbidden Egg, at the behest of some evil mammal which typically robs the nest. To a Tarka--Satan is likely a mongoose.

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Post by gaping_maw » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:15 pm

well, whatever the tarkan mongoose equivalent is :) gotta stay in theme!
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Post by Korindian » Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:18 am

Great read! I gleaned some creative writing tips from your style.

After playing NWN2 I noticed the devilish Erinyes for the first time. Is your nick a reference to this character?

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Post by Bossman » Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:15 am

Korindian wrote:After playing NWN2 I noticed the devilish Erinyes for the first time. Is your nick a reference to this character?

The Erinyes have been around much longer than NWN2.
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Post by Erinys » Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:16 am

Korindian wrote:Great read! I gleaned some creative writing tips from your style.

After playing NWN2 I noticed the devilish Erinyes for the first time. Is your nick a reference to this character?


In Homer's time, Erinys was a singular goddess of justice--also called "The Mistwalker". In later centuries she was split into a triune goddess, not of justice but of retribution--the Erinyes are the hounds of the Olympus, unleashed to punish crimes against the natural order (matricide-patricide, etc.).

I've always used Erinys as a nick for on-line rpg's, usually playing as a scribe. I would assume that the makers of NWN2 are fans of Greek mythology and literature as well. Either that or they knew me back when I played Erinys on Meridian 59. I certainly hope it's not the latter!

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Post by Korindian » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:06 am

Cool!

The Erinyes have been around much longer than NWN2.


Thanks for the link. It's odd that I've never heard the name mentioned before. I had it pronounced all weird in my mind and had to look it up at dictionary.com.

I would assume that the makers of NWN2 are fans of Greek mythology and literature as well. Either that or they knew me back when I played Erinys on Meridian 59. I certainly hope it's not the latter!


According to that link it looks like it was the creators of Dungeons and Dragons who included the Erinyes as some sort of fallen angels.

Anyway, sorry for the thread derail...

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Post by Kaelis Ra » Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:39 am

Erinys wrote:
evrett77 wrote:to takra preists like have egg fetishes or are there lizard alter boys ?


Tarka converts to Catholicism are going to have to work out a good many social and biological issues, not least being that Tarkas have very different sexual taboos than humans do. ;)

It would take a bit of finagling to make the human spiritual metaphor make any sense to them. For example, the story of Eve and her Apple would probably be edited in the Tarka version of Genesis; to a Tarka it would be more meaningful if the first Female gave the first Male a forbidden Egg, at the behest of some evil mammal which typically robs the nest. To a Tarka--Satan is likely a mongoose.

--Arinn


I think you might be making this a bit more complex than it needs to be. Any species that eats food, has nutrition-related health issues, and can be poisoned through said food is going to get the metaphor, I think. After all, original sin came from eating the apple and was not an STD except for how, well, everyone inherited it.

Simillarly, I'm not sure the church could, or would, go for that level of rewrite to sell better to Tarkans or anyone else. Probably an extensive "commentary" section to cover human cultural differences, but I point out that missionaries didn't do much of a rewrite in, say, Africa, or when they encountered the Native Americans. They'd probably search for a Christ-like figure in Tarkan mythology to see if God sent one to His Tarkan Children as well as the Humans (The whole C.S.Lewis Aslan-many names deal applies here) looking for a sister-church kinda deal they can swap verses with.

Of course, with the flood gates open now, I wonder if we might start to find alien religions evangelizing on Human worlds? As an atheist, I'm curious to see if they make any more sense than the local-blends.;)

Anyway, a good, thought-provoking read. More please.:)
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Post by Erinys » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:35 pm

Kaelis Ra wrote:I think you might be making this a bit more complex than it needs to be.


I think it's my work, and I make it as complex or as simple as I want it to be. :wink:

Simillarly, I'm not sure the church could, or would, go for that level of rewrite to sell better to Tarkans or anyone else.


The Church has been re-writing its message deliberately and purposefully for the last 2000 years to sell it to various peoples in various places--and synchretism is a factor they have never been able to control.

Probably an extensive "commentary" section to cover human cultural differences, but I point out that missionaries didn't do much of a rewrite in, say, Africa, or when they encountered the Native Americans.


I'm not sure which era of entry and which part of Africa you are discussing. In North Africa during the latter days of the Roman Empire, the Christians re-wrote their message so many times that many believers of one sect were practicing versions of Christianity that were virtually unrecognizable to the others.

By the time the Church arrived in the Americas, however, I can say for certain that they were simply moving in after the natives had already been subdued by military force and biological warfare. They didn't re-write anything because...they didn't have to.

To see how they would likely relate to unconquered (and very dangerous) sentients like the Tarka, you have to go back to the era when Nicene Christians were seducers, trying to win people to the worship of Christ by persuasion--rather than simply instructing the already-defeated in the belief system of their new masters. They went about things a bit differently, back when they weren't riding on the coattails of a conquistador. ;)

Of course, with the flood gates open now, I wonder if we might start to find alien religions evangelizing on Human worlds? As an atheist, I'm curious to see if they make any more sense than the local-blends.


There are already some rumblings of new religous practices arising on Earth due to alien influence...and some hints that human belief systems are trickling in to Tarka and Liir space.

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Kaelis Ra
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Post by Kaelis Ra » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:59 pm

Erinys wrote:
Kaelis Ra wrote:I think you might be making this a bit more complex than it needs to be.


I think it's my work, and I make it as complex or as simple as I want it to be. :wink:


I never said it wasn't. I thought there might be something about Tarkan biology or society that sailed right over my head or something.;)


I'm not sure which era of entry and which part of Africa you are discussing. In North Africa during the latter days of the Roman Empire, the Christians re-wrote their message so many times that many believers of one sect were practicing versions of Christianity that were virtually unrecognizable to the others.

By the time the Church arrived in the Americas, however, I can say for certain that they were simply moving in after the natives had already been subdued by military force and biological warfare. They didn't re-write anything because...they didn't have to.

To see how they would likely relate to unconquered (and very dangerous) sentients like the Tarka, you have to go back to the era when Nicene Christians were seducers, trying to win people to the worship of Christ by persuasion--rather than simply instructing the already-defeated in the belief system of their new masters. They went about things a bit differently, back when they weren't riding on the coattails of a conquistador. ;)


I was mostly thinking of the slave-trading days, bringing "civilization" to the "savages" and such. You're right. Most of my historical view of the church comes from them riding on the coat-tails of conquerors. Any suggestions on where to read up on things like the north-African confusion you mentioned? It sounds fascinating.

Of course, with the flood gates open now, I wonder if we might start to find alien religions evangelizing on Human worlds? As an atheist, I'm curious to see if they make any more sense than the local-blends.


There are already some rumblings of new religous practices arising on Earth due to alien influence...and some hints that human belief systems are trickling in to Tarka and Liir space.

--Arinn


I think I missed most of those. It might be a good idea to, in the fiction board, put together a locked sticky thread of all the official canonical short pieces you've written for SotS. It would make late-comers like me feel more confident that we aren't missing something important.;)
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Post by Nspace » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:24 pm

Kaelis Ra wrote:It might be a good idea to, in the fiction board, put together a locked sticky thread of all the official canonical short pieces you've written for SotS. It would make late-comers like me feel more confident that we aren't missing something important.;)


While I'm not too sure how many canonical short pieces there are to sticky, almost all of the race information and backstory has been collected from the Races subforum here and posted to the Races category on the wiki. There is a ton of information, mostly posted verbatim from the questions and answers asked of Erinys here. Most of the category/subcategory pages also have info and backstory as well as the links to pages, so don't just skip them. And be sure to check out the "Discussion" pages too. Anything that hasn't been added to the main pages is stored there so it doesn't get lost. :)
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Erinys
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Post by Erinys » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:56 pm

Kaelis Ra wrote:Any suggestions on where to read up on things like the north-African confusion you mentioned? It sounds fascinating.


Just about any history of the "Primitive" church is a good place to start, if you're interested in how the various doctrinal differences were ironed out. Note that some of the differences have never been resolved, and the splits seem to be based on the scattering of Christ's disciples immediately after the Passion--the Coptic Church of Alexandria claims descent from a group founded by the Apostle Mark, for example, whereas modern-day Popes derive their spiritual authority from what is called "The Petrine Doctrine"--their spiritual community was once led by the Apostle Peter, who was murdered by Nero in Rome. In Ethiopia there is all sorts of very interesting and divergent Christian practice to this day--for example, the Axumite monks who claim to be the hereditary guardians of the Arc of the Convenant. ;)

For some amusing details on doctrinal arguments, see the number of meetings in which important "universal truths" were established, not by divine revelation but by debate and argument followed by majority agreement--or by political authorities of the time. (Council of Nicea, Synod of Whitby, etc) Also note that even the attempt to "settle" important doctrinal differences didn't immediately settle them--for hundreds of years, Nicene Christians were not the only game in town. It took them a very, very long time to stamp out all the heresies--and just about the time they were finished, some German nailed a list of grievances to his door and it was off to the races again. :lol:

There were some highly colorful and entertaining characters back in those early days: personal favorite when studying this subject would be Athanasius of Alexandria. "Athanasius contra mundum!"

For interesting details on how major political figures and various non-conquered pagan populations were converted, see biographies of Constantine the Great (in particular his vision at the battle of the Milvian Bridge), the Frankish Merovingian monarch Clovis (and his nagging Christian wife Clothilda) and Rollo, "duke" of Normandy. Some of the evangelists back then were also pretty impressive, including Boniface, who converted the Saxons of Hesse by performing feats which combined equal parts of skepticism, theatrical passion and sheer miraculous chance--as when he took up an axe to fell "Thor's Oak" in Geismar, daring the Oathbreaker to strike him down with every blow, and then stood as the tree split and fell into four sections, forming the shape of the cross with its remains in front of the gathered crowd.

Overall the strategies of conversion were quite diverse and fascinating for a period of about 900 years. It makes fun reading. :)

I think I missed most of those. It might be a good idea to, in the fiction board, put together a locked sticky thread of all the official canonical short pieces you've written for SotS. It would make late-comers like me feel more confident that we aren't missing something important.;)


Most of the important information isn't contained in fiction pieces--those will be stickied as necessary--but the fans have been very good about collecting the info I've given out on our Wiki.

We have some plans for the future so far as SoTS fiction goes, and a couple of story-oriented, mission-based games on the drawing board. We'll just have to see what the future holds based on the publisher's support of the franchise.

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