The Liir

All things Human, Hiver, Tarka, Liir, Zuul and Morrigi.

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Simetra
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Re: The Liir

Post by Simetra » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:09 am

Suit vs Ship:

You don't need control systems (mostly)
You don't need a engine
You don't need internal structures

... I think there are many things ;)

o_o
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Re: The Liir

Post by o_o » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:20 am

Simetra wrote:Suit vs Ship:

You don't need control systems (mostly)
You don't need a engine
You don't need internal structures

... I think there are many things ;)


I'll give you FTL drive from the nature of the ship's inhabitant, but I don't think it's that simple with regard to the rest. The suit has to be capable of sustaining an inhabitant for essentially forever: providing it with food, temperature regulation, cleaning functions, etc. For a creature that size, the suit may as well have its own internal ecosystem.

The lack of internal structures doesn't ease the construction of the suit. It probably makes the whole thing harder (think about a skyscraper with internal supports versus one where the outside does all of the weight-bearing). Plus, the suit is probably actuated versus being static like most ships. The need for control systems is probably the same, given that there will be about as many functions. However, the Suul'Ka being some kind of super psychic may negate all of this.

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erdrik
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Re: The Liir

Post by erdrik » Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:21 pm

I pretty sure folding space takes alot of direct thought.
So your left with a Great Elder that has gone insane, and is arrogant to the point of enslaving his own race for his own personal gain.
If such a creature is left with a choice of:
A. maintain a constant(and ever increasing due to continuous growth) fold, even minor, in SpaceTime to avoid the crushing weight of the water around him.
or B. enslave his peers to make a suit that can be used in space, and never(relativly) have to worry about an atmosphere or gravity well from crushing him.

Which choice do you think he would make?

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Gryfalcon
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Re: The Liir

Post by Gryfalcon » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:23 pm

Don't Liir keep growing forever? Wouldn't a bodysuit, even an enormous one, get too small? In the last 100 years somebody has been building new suits for the remaining Sul'ka. Did the Sul'ka take some other Liir with them? Enslave somebody else? Create another race like the Zuul to make suits for them?
Summer grasses:
all that remain of great soldiers’
imperial dreams - Basho

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Erinys
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Re: The Liir

Post by Erinys » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:04 pm

Suul'ka can modify their own suits quite easily.

Also, their growth rates slow or cease once they leave sea. The energy that they consume and expend tends to be more...pure.

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ZedF
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Re: The Liir

Post by ZedF » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:06 pm

Elan vital, perhaps? :) Psionic energy from other living beings?
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

Stratigo
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Re: The Liir

Post by Stratigo » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:20 am

Erinys wrote:Suul'ka can modify their own suits quite easily.

Also, their growth rates slow or cease once they leave sea. The energy that they consume and expend tends to be more...pure.

--Arinn


aaaaawe, and here I was giggling at an image of a really massive Suul'ka sitting somewhere with planets orbiting around him.

Or "That's no moon! It's a giant space whale!"



Aaaaaaanywho, I wrote a post in the suul'ka thread in general postulating that suul'ka would be unlikely to occur again in a space fairing empire.

So I guess I'll ask here, how likely is it that an Elder reaching a mass where he begins to believe his end is nigh, would simply ask the current industrialized and space fairing liir for a suit without having to bootstrap the species via slavery into an industrial revolution as he would have previously.

Conversely how likely is it the liir empire (or the black swimmers, or whom ever control ship production) would accept such a request?




EDIT: secondary question since the morrigi are my favorite race, did or do the morrigi have any inkling of the relation ship between the liir and suul'ka?

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Gryfalcon
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Re: The Liir

Post by Gryfalcon » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:21 pm

Erinys wrote:The Liir were conquered and enslaved by another star-faring race, whom they learned to call the Suul’ka. The Suul’ka established several lucrative industries on Muur, the Liirian homeworld, and force-marched the Liirians through the Industrial Revolution by employing them as slaves in mines, factories and manufacturing facilities


It never occurred to me that the Suul'ka might be a branch from the Liir, despite a number of things that made it fairly obvious in retrospect, because of this statement. The Liir were enslaved by another star-faring race. Of course, that's what the Liir told Sol Force and, therefore, what we see. I still feel a bit cheated, however.
Summer grasses:
all that remain of great soldiers’
imperial dreams - Basho

Ranamar
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Re: The Liir

Post by Ranamar » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:04 pm

Gryfalcon wrote:
Erinys wrote:The Liir were conquered and enslaved by another star-faring race, whom they learned to call the Suul’ka. The Suul’ka established several lucrative industries on Muur, the Liirian homeworld, and force-marched the Liirians through the Industrial Revolution by employing them as slaves in mines, factories and manufacturing facilities


It never occurred to me that the Suul'ka might be a branch from the Liir, despite a number of things that made it fairly obvious in retrospect, because of this statement. The Liir were enslaved by another star-faring race. Of course, that's what the Liir told Sol Force and, therefore, what we see. I still feel a bit cheated, however.


I'm with you on this. I was incredibly confused when I went away from the thread for a week and came back to discover everyone talking about how the Suul'ka were Liir Elders who didn't want to die. (... and, now that I write it like that, seem to have turned out loosely similar in treatment to necromancers in human fantasy stories.)

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AlanF5
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Re: The Liir

Post by AlanF5 » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:06 pm

SolForce is an unreliable narrator ;)

Always gotta be aware of which voice the author is using to speak.
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Ranamar
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Re: The Liir

Post by Ranamar » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:08 pm

AlanF5 wrote:SolForce is an unreliable narrator ;)

Always gotta be aware of which voice the author is using to speak.


How do you think SolForce is going to react when they find this out, though? I can imagine a significant minority who want to bin the Liir with the Suul'ka just for lying about that. I wouldn't blame them!

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AlanF5
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Re: The Liir

Post by AlanF5 » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:18 pm

Lies? They merely allowed us our assumptions when our questions were met by silence. 8)
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cameron112497
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Re: The Liir

Post by cameron112497 » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:35 pm

Ranamar wrote:
AlanF5 wrote:SolForce is an unreliable narrator ;)

Always gotta be aware of which voice the author is using to speak.


How do you think SolForce is going to react when they find this out, though? I can imagine a large majority who want to bin the Liir with the Suul'ka just for lying about that. I wouldn't blame them!

FTFY. Considering how we treat members of our own race that are slightly diffrent. I imagine that the current humans are rather xenophobic

Stratigo
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Re: The Liir

Post by Stratigo » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:06 pm

cameron112497 wrote:
Ranamar wrote:FTFY. Considering how we treat members of our own race that are slightly diffrent. I imagine that the current humans are rather xenophobic


from what I get from solforce, it is a rather egalitarian group. In fact they have moved past capital based economy, which is a big step forward anyways. I don't think solforce is particularly xenophobic, though they may have trouble with hivers still due to the whole invasion of earth millions/billions dieing thing that happened (Though at a SotS 2 point, they may have moved past that just from the march of time dulling the memory of war. Very few people hate the Japanese now for pearl harbor). Nor could I imagine they are fans of the zuul (at least the suul'ka hoard ones. And probably the liir alliance ones will get a bit of mistrust too.)

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Erinys
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Re: The Liir

Post by Erinys » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:12 pm

I'm sure Maldonado will be quite upset. On the other hand, he would also be first to tell you that his ability to communicate with the Liir was limited.

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