The Morrigi

All things Human, Hiver, Tarka, Liir, Zuul and Morrigi.

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Gryfalcon
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Re: The Morrigi

Post by Gryfalcon » Wed May 04, 2011 9:29 pm

Gakl wrote:We naked apes do so love to bundle our little ideas into nice little archetypes and memetic categories.
You expect more from dustlings?


Actually, I think inability to do so is a reasonable definition of insanity. The mind's primary function is to integrate various inputs into a coherent whole. If the mind isn't bundling things, it isn't functioning. I can't imagine any other sentient being would be significantly different - not one that we could talk to, anyway.
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Re: The Morrigi

Post by Gakl » Wed May 04, 2011 9:35 pm

Yeah, the success of multi-platinums will swell an ego.

That said, I don't exactly hold them up as a monument of originality in music---though I'm a huge fan of their first 4 albums--even that wasn't that impressive. They basically just managed to congeal some good aspects of the late 70s art-rock-pre-new wave sound into something sonically coherent. Lyrically, at least--it's all cliches rooted in cold war temerity and freedom movements...but I digress...(uh...what was the topic?)



Anyhow, no disrespect was intended. I thought I was just parroting a pithy statement describing reality--geez. Mec's always so prickly. :P

--besides, why would we be on these boards if we weren't fans anyhow. :shock:
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Re: The Morrigi

Post by wingren013 » Wed May 04, 2011 9:48 pm

Why did the morrigi choose the terms dustlings and dust empires (instead of dirty, planetbound, etc....).

edit: Is the unkown meaning of Travelers in the other Morrigi languages possibly exiles, desterters, runners, or retreaters
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Re: The Morrigi

Post by Azrael Ultima » Wed May 04, 2011 10:00 pm

There are no orks, no ring-worlds, and no gently well-meaning AI gods to rock the Morrigi or any other carbon race in this game to sleep at night.

Well, there are(were) certainly AIs that may or may not consider themselves gods and would be perfectly happy to rock the carbon races... preferably with siege drivers. There probably isn't any gentleness or well-meaning involved, though, and sleep only in the eternal rest sense.

Asking what would constitute a Black Swan Event(or as Iain Banks put it, "outside context problem") doesn't make much sense in my opinion. One of the main points of them is that they are a surprise, after all.
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Re: The Morrigi

Post by Gakl » Wed May 04, 2011 10:05 pm

Azrael Ultima wrote:Asking what would constitute a Black Swan Event(or as Iain Banks put it, "outside context problem") doesn't make much sense in my opinion. One of the main points of them is that they are a surprise, after all.


Preposterous! Damn you, and your newfangled logic! :thumbsup:
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Sounds of my current project: http://soundcloud.com/leopardmerkin/sets/basement/
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WarpObscura
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Re: The Morrigi

Post by WarpObscura » Thu May 05, 2011 1:59 pm

Erinys wrote:
WarpObscura wrote:1. What attitude do the current Morrigi hold towards their ancient brethren?


There has always been a certain amount of ancestor worship among Morrigi, especially among males. They have every reason to venerate the past and claim descent from the great princes and heroes of their own antiquity.


Roughly how much more advanced were the golden age Morrigi? As far from the SOTS1 Morrigi as we currently are from our Stone Age ancestors? Far enough as to do things we would consider magical and impossible by our limited grasp of physics?

Erinys wrote:
2. Do they have Adeptus Mechanicus (Warhammer 40K) style roving fleets that actively seek out remnants of their lost tech?


*sigh* They have fleets that actively explore and investigate the universe around them. This is not Warhammer 40K.


So... They don't make fleets specialised for just the purpose of finding caches? :?

Erinys wrote:
3. If a SOTS1-current Morrigi fleet were to approach 21st century Earth, how close could they get without NORAD et. al picking them up?


To my knowledge, NORAD and analogous tracking systems are configured to detect fairly conventional objects moving within the Earth's atmosphere--planes and missiles. Morrigi ships are not conventional objects and they do not have to enter the Earth's atmosphere. If a Morrigi wished to visit the contemporary Earth with complete discretion, there are certainly options. You can always park on the dark side of the moon and make the rest of the trip in Ascension armor, for example. Not like we're visiting our own moon with any regularity. :roll:


Speaking of Ascension armour, how conventionally visible is it? I'm guessing "makes a F-22 look like a 747 on radar" visible?

Erinys wrote:
4. I understand that they do not like the idea of making their females fight. Are they therefore affronted by the races that allow women in combat roles?


"Not liking the idea" is a bit of an understatement. Morrigi males consider it an embarrassment and a disgrace if their women are not protected from harm--fighting, after all, is the most important service that they provide. As for being "affronted" that other species allow women in combat roles...no. Dustlings are dustlings, and their quaint foreign customs are their own affair.

4a. Are they especially disgusted by races where the women are better combatants?


Morrigi do not indulge in denial about martial skill. An effective warrior or general is not "disgusting" regardless of gender. If anything they are intrigued by women who fight well, especially in recent years, when they have lost any sense of complacency about defending their territory.

The Greek attitude toward Amazons would supply a good model. A warrior female is remarkable.


So... They wouldn't like it if their women had to fight, but don't really care if Dustlings do and might find it interesting? Dang, looks like another idea of mine to discard. =X I guess they would despise ineffectual males?

Erinys wrote:
6. I understand that they consider tholo desecration a... grave offence. *YEEEAAA-* What is their response if they encounter a lesser race misusing their lost tech?


Such a thing is extremely unlikely to happen. Generally any trinket that a Dustling might possess would be a gift that was given to their ancestors by a Morrigi Traveler long ago. The Morrigi might want it back, but they would try to trade for it. It's dishonorable to steal such treasures.

Anything stolen from a wrecked Morrigi ship or a looted tholos in the hands of a Dustling would be an outrage. They would take it by force, steal it back if force was unlikely to succeed, or destroy it rather than let it remain in alien hands if all other options were lacking.


That's a point I'll have to think more about if I want to go ahead with my idea. Thanks.

Erinys wrote:
7. What constitutes an Out Of Context Problem for them?


The Suul'ka and the Zuul came very close. For that matter, the rise of Dust Empires was a bit unexpected.


Why was the rise of Dust Empires unexpected? They didn't foresee such primitives making it to the stars?

What is the Morrigi view on sacrificing the self for others?

Also, do they have any canon encounters with Sparky? What about experience with other anti-world weapons, stuff that starts at wrecking continents?

Erinys wrote:Just FYI--please be aware that continually asking questions which are phrased in terms of other games or another writer's science fiction is not the way to get my attention, in the future. This is not Warhammer 40K, Halo, or the Culture. We are not Games Workshop or Bungie, and I am not Iain Banks. There are no orks, no ring-worlds, and no gently well-meaning AI gods to rock the Morrigi or any other carbon race in this game to sleep at night. :P

--Arinn


:oops: Es tut mir leid. As an aspiring writer who only wishes I got mentioned in the same breath as such famous works, I have no grasp of the professional writer's pride in not being overshadowed by competitors and did not intend any offence. Gakl put my intent in analogy across so much more neatly than I could ever have.

And I'm sincerely grateful for the time you bother to put in to address our queries. There are far too many works where one has to fill in many gaps by himself, for better or worse, creating a fanon vastly... off the mark from what the author/scriptwriter intended.
Last edited by WarpObscura on Thu May 05, 2011 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Azrael Ultima
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Re: The Morrigi

Post by Azrael Ultima » Thu May 05, 2011 2:42 pm

WarpObscura wrote:Why was the rise of Dust Empires unexpected? They didn't foresee such primitives making it to the stars?

You just answered your own question there.
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Re: The Morrigi

Post by Zalzidrax » Thu May 05, 2011 3:18 pm

WarpObscura wrote:So... They don't make fleets specialised for just the purpose of finding caches? :?


I think, given the Morrigi's culture, asking if they make fleets specialized for finding stuff is about equivalent to asking if the Imperium makes fleets specialized for shooting stuff.

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Re: The Morrigi

Post by Erinys » Thu May 05, 2011 6:04 pm

WarpObscura wrote:Roughly how much more advanced were the golden age Morrigi? As far from the SOTS1 Morrigi as we currently are from our Stone Age ancestors? Far enough as to do things we would consider magical and impossible by our limited grasp of physics?


A better analogy might be...as far from the SotS Prime Morrigi as we are from the pre-Renaissance Middle Ages.

So... They don't make fleets specialised for just the purpose of finding caches? :?


I don't think you really understand. Modern-day Morrigi are still living with some of the ancient technology that their ancestors built--some of the old Sky Cities are still aloft, others have fallen and can be excavated on the ground. Their technology is not scattered throughout the universe beyond their reach, except to the degree that their ancestors passed out a few beads and baubles to the primitive natives while exploring.

Speaking of Ascension armour, how conventionally visible is it? I'm guessing "makes a F-22 look like a 747 on radar" visible?


Ascension armor is fast, fluid, and graceful to a degree that no human-built airfoil will ever be. If you saw it moving with your own eyes, you might dismiss it as a hallucination; on radar it is a small signature that looks like a very brief anomaly, and of course if you send a pilot to check it out...well, odds are that the Morrigi will be out of sight, or that he will make your pilots see whatever he wants them too. Including nothing.

So... They wouldn't like it if their women had to fight, but don't really care if Dustlings do and might find it interesting? Dang, looks like another idea of mine to discard. =X I guess they would despise ineffectual males?


They don't like it if their women have to fight, and they particularly don't like it when their women are harmed because they are not defended. They get extremely emotional about such things, and horrific wars can and will be fought over harm, dishonor or insult done to their women. In their version of the story, the "Helen of Troy" figure is a kidnap victim, not an unfaithful wife.

And yes. Males who won't defend their territory, their planets and their rights of Descent are despised as weak. Oddly enough, males do not insult other males by comparing them to women--they are more likely to use insults based on injury or birth defect. "Wingless worm", etc..

Why was the rise of Dust Empires unexpected? They didn't foresee such primitives making it to the stars?

What is the Morrigi view on sacrificing the self for others?


Don't forget, the Morrigi remember what the human race looked like 15,000 years ago. Prior to the SotS 1 era, they had not visited humankind with any regularity for at least 2400 years.

Also, do they have any canon encounters with Sparky? What about experience with other anti-world weapons, stuff that starts at wrecking continents?


They have seen the Star Breaker before, and recognize it as a thing much more ancient than themselves. In ancient times there was no drive to develop anti-world weapons of their own, and if you think about it for a moment, I'm sure you will see why. Would you ask a group of women to design and manufacture a weapon which could kill no one BUT other women and children?

:oops: Es tut mir leid. As an aspiring writer who only wishes I got mentioned in the same breath as such famous works, I have no grasp of the professional writer's pride in not being overshadowed by competitors and did not intend any offence. Gakl put my intent in analogy across so much more neatly than I could ever have.

And I'm sincerely grateful for the time you bother to put in to address our queries. There are far too many works where one has to fill in many gaps by himself, for better or worse, creating a fanon vastly... off the mark from what the author/scriptwriter intended.


You're very welcome. I do not mind taking the time to answer questions. And I do appreciate the apology. I will not deny that I take pride in my own work and would prefer not to have it confused with someone else's.

However, please be aware that my pride is NOT the only issue at stake. Whether my work is overshadowed by more popular fiction or not, keeping my writing separate and distinct from the intellectual property of other companies and authors is an absolute legal necessity.

Fan fiction writers have many liberties which working professionals do not.

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Re: The Morrigi

Post by Azrael Ultima » Thu May 05, 2011 6:15 pm

Oddly enough, males do not insult other males by comparing them to women--they are more likely to use insults based on injury or birth defect. "Wingless worm", etc..

I don't think this is odd... in fact, it fits rather well with their general stance towards women. If they used comparisons to women as insults, they would at the same time be insulting and attacking women, which given their understanding themselves as the first and last line of defence of them would require that they kick their own asses.

... i think. Uh. What did i just say?
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Re: The Morrigi

Post by Gryfalcon » Thu May 05, 2011 6:22 pm

One of the benefits of being serpentine would be the ease with which one can do so, I'd think.
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Re: The Morrigi

Post by Zalzidrax » Fri May 06, 2011 12:08 am

Erinys wrote: Modern-day Morrigi are still living with some of the ancient technology that their ancestors built--some of the old Sky Cities are still aloft, others have fallen and can be excavated on the ground. Their technology is not scattered throughout the universe beyond their reach, except to the degree that their ancestors passed out a few beads and baubles to the primitive natives while exploring.


This makes me wonder about the state of Morrigi science. It seems to me that it's a heck of a lot harder to lose the ability to create a certain technology than it is to lose the theory behind them. For example, there's probably only a handful of people on this planet who know enough to design and fabricate a modern computer chip, but a good proportion of those with degrees in electrical engineering, physics, or materials science could probably remember the basics of Boolean logic and the basic idea behind a field effect transistor.

So what does that look like, exactly? Are modern day Morrigi scientists mostly pressed back into reconstructing the applied knowledge they already had, or was there enough of a cataclysmic shock to their society, in particular their eduction system, that major important fields of knowledge didn't get passed on, even at the basic theory level? Is the average Morrigi scientist working through already known theory and trying to figure out what materials and fabrication techniques they need to make parts small enough, efficient enough, and cheap enough so that they can repair older technology, or is are they having to try to reverse engineer a bunch of devices that they wouldn't even understand the design specs for?

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Re: The Morrigi

Post by Azrael Ultima » Fri May 06, 2011 1:37 am

They might actually have lost access to the intermediate steps, which they hadn't needed for a while... ending them up in a situation where they know how to build an anti-matter reactor, but not how to make the tools needed to build it without already having one.
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The zeppelin of bluster Feldman excoriated Freddy with suddenly popped into a cloud of humility. (David Grand, The Disappearing Body, 2002)

Launch apathy protocols. Visual rotational thrusters engaged. Scroll command to HAND/DEXTER/02 received. Submitting pressure request to location Left Mouse. Visual augur confirms hit on Planetary Annihilation General Discussion.

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Re: The Morrigi

Post by fibio » Fri May 06, 2011 8:13 am

We must also remember that they've been through a war where their enemy made a good attempt at total extinction. They were in decline before that, but it can't have helped.
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Re: The Morrigi

Post by WarpObscura » Sun May 08, 2011 3:11 am

Erinys wrote:
WarpObscura wrote:Roughly how much more advanced were the golden age Morrigi? As far from the SOTS1 Morrigi as we currently are from our Stone Age ancestors? Far enough as to do things we would consider magical and impossible by our limited grasp of physics?


A better analogy might be...as far from the SotS Prime Morrigi as we are from the pre-Renaissance Middle Ages.


Not that gigantic a gap then.

Erinys wrote:
So... They don't make fleets specialised for just the purpose of finding caches? :?


I don't think you really understand. Modern-day Morrigi are still living with some of the ancient technology that their ancestors built--some of the old Sky Cities are still aloft, others have fallen and can be excavated on the ground. Their technology is not scattered throughout the universe beyond their reach, except to the degree that their ancestors passed out a few beads and baubles to the primitive natives while exploring.


I stand chastened.

Erinys wrote:
Why was the rise of Dust Empires unexpected? They didn't foresee such primitives making it to the stars?

What is the Morrigi view on sacrificing the self for others?


Don't forget, the Morrigi remember what the human race looked like 15,000 years ago. Prior to the SotS 1 era, they had not visited humankind with any regularity for at least 2400 years.


They make the mistake of underestimating "lesser races'" ability to progress, then.

Erinys wrote:
Also, do they have any canon encounters with Sparky? What about experience with other anti-world weapons, stuff that starts at wrecking continents?


They have seen the Star Breaker before, and recognize it as a thing much more ancient than themselves. In ancient times there was no drive to develop anti-world weapons of their own, and if you think about it for a moment, I'm sure you will see why. Would you ask a group of women to design and manufacture a weapon which could kill no one BUT other women and children?


:oops: I should have considered that.

Erinys wrote:
:oops: Es tut mir leid. As an aspiring writer who only wishes I got mentioned in the same breath as such famous works, I have no grasp of the professional writer's pride in not being overshadowed by competitors and did not intend any offence. Gakl put my intent in analogy across so much more neatly than I could ever have.

And I'm sincerely grateful for the time you bother to put in to address our queries. There are far too many works where one has to fill in many gaps by himself, for better or worse, creating a fanon vastly... off the mark from what the author/scriptwriter intended.


You're very welcome. I do not mind taking the time to answer questions. And I do appreciate the apology. I will not deny that I take pride in my own work and would prefer not to have it confused with someone else's.

However, please be aware that my pride is NOT the only issue at stake. Whether my work is overshadowed by more popular fiction or not, keeping my writing separate and distinct from the intellectual property of other companies and authors is an absolute legal necessity.

Fan fiction writers have many liberties which working professionals do not.

--Arinn


Noted. If I may trouble you with some more queries:

What is the Morrigi view on sacrificing the self for others?

What does a Morrigi bridge look like? Do all the officers, insofar as we use the term, curl around pillars like we might sit and look at consoles or displays?

What terms do the Morrigi use when speaking of their ancestors? Ancient Brethren? Exalted Ancestors? Something else?

If first contact with a starfaring civilisation is necessary, how do they go about it?

What full name conventions do they use? Do they use surnames or patronyms? Otherwise, how do they distinguish, say, Temujin A from Temujin B the way we distinguish John Smith son of Bob from John Buck son of David?

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