Putting Things Right...

Talk about all things to do with the sequel to our flagship 4X title.

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Connll
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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by Connll » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:36 pm

I thank you for this, Mecron.

It takes a great deal of strenght to step up and and assume resposibility (even though everyone here KNOWS that it is only partially yours), and bearing the burden that will inevitably follow.

It also shows honor to come out and speak the truth, in spite of how ugly it is. Kerberos´s team has never failed to support and update SoTS Prime and there is little reason to believe the same won´t happen again.

Best of lucks (and a ton of cofee, maybe? ;) ) for the next few months.
Strength and Honor.

weston
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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by weston » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:38 pm

Mecron;
You had me just about rooting for your team when I'm at the point of requesting a refund, until I got to this single little line:
step aside or get out of the way cause vitriol is not going to help right now

While it may seem nothing wrong with it, it is aggressive and that I don't believe is something you really want to convey.

You could have and probably should have left that out and the vitriol (bitching and moaning) would eventually subside without the need to show aggression.

Other than that, good letter to the community, will have to think about it if I really want to stick around and trust you to do the right thing.

I've known plenty of people in my long life that could be trusted with my life one year and 3 years later I wouldn't trust them to hold a butter knife in my presence, will have to think about trusting you to do what you say.

As far as taking the blame for something, well... I don't applaud you for this as I've always lived my life and fessed up and taken the blame for when I am to blame and I don't think anything special of doing that myself so don't really matter to me who takes the blame for this, it's really not important, don't know why some folks feel that it is.

I don't need any compensation for this fiasco myself, just want the game that I paid premium price on to be what it really should be and not what was released twice on friday, in it's current form it's utter garbage.

Now I sit back and watch, watch to see how you really go about fixing this in a reasonable amount of time before I cry refund.
Last edited by weston on Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CyanStorm
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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by CyanStorm » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:40 pm

Hey Mecron,

Well, I haven't been a fan for years. I bought SotS Prime earlier this year, played it quite a bit, then saw that SotS ][ was announced and was ecstatic. When the game finally came out on the 28th, I got as far as the main menu, because, well, it wasn't there. You guys fixed that on Saturday. You promised a bigger patch for Monday. And I know how great SotS Prime is and I believe the old-timers when they say it was far from perfect when it got launched in 2006.

So yes, I firmly believe you guys can do this. No refund necessary, no scamming for a free copy of SotS, just my confidence in you.

To the whole team: Thanks for giving this your all, but please try not to work yourselves to death, kay? ;)
But when you rush things, accidents can happen. And accidents never have good results for the empire.
- The SotS ][ manual on release problems... er... research accidents.

The Apprentice
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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by The Apprentice » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:48 pm

Tundra wrote:This is a great update and I don't mean to be combative, but the whole first part is an apology for the release of the wrong version. That happens, life goes on. I think the real flak being fired is at the state of the actual 'finished' version. You kind of skirt that issue, and you mention your code and such being a mess, wouldn't you have known all this last week at this time? Wouldn't you have known 2 weeks, even a week out that this was not going to pass?

I'm not asking this rhetorically or with anger, but just literally curious. You certainly aren't the first company to release a game that was certainly not ready and I just wonder why it happens, and specifically why it happened to you. You mention you worry they will come across as excuses, but I think quite a few of us would be interested in them for the point they are also facts.


Yes. The facts will either mitigate or amplify the decision to release. Paradox's CEO said it wasn't about a money-grab for financial reasons. Erinys said there were team vacancies. In order to not treat us "like [stupid] cattle," a rational explanation for the decision to release seems to be needed. Maybe the explanation will stink, maybe it will beautify KP.

Without one, this "Putting Things Right" thread seems incomplete- and premature.
Feel free to call me App- it's shorter.

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mistervec
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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by mistervec » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:50 pm

I said earlier today that I would be interested in seeing what happens next. This is a good sign. I will watch and wait, as quiet, cold, and emotionless as an antediluvian god. I can see the dissonance between what you want your game to be and what the game currently is and will trust that you will pluck a harmony from it.
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Carheadbutt
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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by Carheadbutt » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:54 pm

Thank you for this. Could we also know when it will be possible to get the other immersion packs, specifically on Steam? I'm a huge SolForce buff and was disappointed by the lack of choices.

Mivo
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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by Mivo » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:56 pm

Thank you. This was a powerful post, and I hope that it will soothe some of the unhappiness or frustration that has been floating around.

For me personally, I have full faith in Kerberos. After having seen the huge potential the game shows even in its present state I know that I'll enjoy watching the unfolding of the game, to become the awesome, deep and rich strategy title it is meant to be. I'm also thrilled at the outlook of getting frequent updates -- especially those with tidbits of content thrown in --, which will make the next few weeks quite exciting, and I'm looking forward to the the fixes and feature additions, as well.

I hope that people who are currently on the fence can find appreciation for your position and that it will help them to move on from the negative feelings toward a more optimistic mindset. What's done is done, and while there are lessons to be learned (which I think have been learned), I feel that looking forward is almost always better than dwelling on what can't be changed now. The future, on the other hand, can be shaped, so I hope that the fence sitters take you up on your offer of a free copy of SotS1 and sick around, allowing you to keep the money and put it into the game's continued development.

And do get regular sleep from now on! ;)

HiigaranPilot
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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by HiigaranPilot » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:33 pm

Mecron:

Thank you for your this. It takes a great deal of guts, and shows tremendous character to so publicly take the blame of a screwup upon oneself, especially when it's of a massive project which fans are waiting for in a manner only slightly dissimilar to that of rabid dogs being attacked by bees (myself included-- Lord knows I was excited!). I have no doubt that SOTS ][ will be exactly as spectacular as it was always intended by the production staff, and if all you need is more time, that's something I'm certainly willing to give.

I think I can speak for the vast majority of us when I say that I'm not requesting a refund. I have every confidence in Kerberos.

Guess it's a good thing I opened this thread, too-- I sat down to try (emphasis on try-- something is making it all but unplayable on this rig) and play some earlier today, and discovered numerous bugs. I came to the forums to post under tech support when I saw this message; glad to know things are being worked on. I will post whatever bugs I find over in the TS section. If they're known bugs, fantastic; if not, well...I hope it will help, and I apologize for any extra work made.

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falcongrey
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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by falcongrey » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:35 pm

I've been with you guys long enough to know from time to time an OOPS! happens from being human and when it does you all as a team, pull it up by the boot straps and apologize (in my opinion) for things not needed to be apologized about and always (I mean always) go over board on trying to make up for the oops.

Again in my opinion nothing needs to be made up for because I know you will always make it good on your products. Heck, how many years have you supported and added to SotS 1?

As for those of us who voluntarily hunt down the bugs and report them... several of us find it fun and a challenge! :lol:

Bottom line:

1. Money not wasted, it's invested! :mrgreen:
2. Got to beta test it anyway! :thumbsup:
3. Can't wait to see the game after the next month of updates! :twisted:

oh and what's with all the ~ after all the files?!? ( 8) J/K! Will ask about that in the mod forum!)
It's not that we stood or fell that matters, but that we stood and faced it.
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G P
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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by G P » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:39 pm

So Mr Mecron for those of us who didn't buy the game already when would be the best time?

I plan to buy when the game is finished certainly, but would getting it now help in any way or am I best waiting a month or two, i'm honestly not too fussed about doing it either way.

TurielD
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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by TurielD » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:47 pm

The Apprentice wrote:
Tundra wrote:This is a great update and I don't mean to be combative, but the whole first part is an apology for the release of the wrong version. That happens, life goes on. I think the real flak being fired is at the state of the actual 'finished' version. You kind of skirt that issue, and you mention your code and such being a mess, wouldn't you have known all this last week at this time? Wouldn't you have known 2 weeks, even a week out that this was not going to pass?

I'm not asking this rhetorically or with anger, but just literally curious. You certainly aren't the first company to release a game that was certainly not ready and I just wonder why it happens, and specifically why it happened to you. You mention you worry they will come across as excuses, but I think quite a few of us would be interested in them for the point they are also facts.


Yes. The facts will either mitigate or amplify the decision to release. Paradox's CEO said it wasn't about a money-grab for financial reasons. Erinys said there were team vacancies. In order to not treat us "like [stupid] cattle," a rational explanation for the decision to release seems to be needed. Maybe the explanation will stink, maybe it will beautify KP.

Without one, this "Putting Things Right" thread seems incomplete- and premature.


I would like to second (third?) this... it's really important to get the facts of what happened out there. Really there's people out there right now trying to defend Kerberos and SotS2 from the storm of bad press this release is generating and I may join them if the facts are there. 'sounding like excuses' is really not an issue - we can judge on what you tell us much better than just trying to take your word for it that things went wrong which weren't directly your fault.

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Tyrargo
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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by Tyrargo » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:49 pm

So answer me this... how much more stable will monday release be? No need to be precise, just tell us, how much of crashes have been fixed. At least, in percentage.
And i really-really hope you guys will recover from that negative impact.

Mivo wrote:And do get regular sleep from now on! ;)

Despite i want SotS ][ to be fixed ASAP, i second that. Don't wear your programmers off.
The greatest irony of Iron Savior is that it was actually made of steel.

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falcongrey
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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by falcongrey » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:52 pm

G P wrote:So Mr Mecron for those of us who didn't buy the game already when would be the best time?

I plan to buy when the game is finished certainly, but would getting it now help in any way or am I best waiting a month or two, i'm honestly not too fussed about doing it either way.


I'll answer my opinion to this but also will let Mecron answer his. I was with the original SotS from the begining just before the first addon came out. It was a real blast watching the game evolve from the inside instead of setting off as a silent observer.

So my opinion is to get it now, see how it is, watch it evolve, join the family that will be with you for years, and enjoy it. It isn't TOO bad that it's not playable. Just a touch buggy and well ok... it does crash a bit too often :oops: but it's STILL fun! :P You can tell a lot of thought and hard work went in on this.

The best part of being in it from this point is your ideas and opinions may end up in the game and helping it improve for all of us! Kerberos always listens, even when we talk too much or state an opinion that maybe we should have kept to ourselves from time to time... :oops: (Remembers his last open mouth, insert foot moment pointed out by Mecron to him)

But yes, join the family and get it now! :thumbsup:
It's not that we stood or fell that matters, but that we stood and faced it.
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nutsnmango
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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by nutsnmango » Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:14 am

you know I was so pissed about this awful release, but then I realized I've been playing a pirated copy of the original SOTS for years with all the expansions and its my favorite space 4x of all time (and I played master of orion 2 when i was 13)


so even if sword of the stars 2 will never become a real game and even if kerberos goes bankrupt as a result of this, they did deserve the $40 I spent on this trainwreck, so I will not be seeking a refund


its like karma ....or something

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caddybear
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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by caddybear » Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:20 am

Thanks Mecron. It means a lot to hear these from you.
I like breast milk, but never in my tea.

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