Human Campaign being played on YouTube

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wolfenray
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Human Campaign being played on YouTube

Post by wolfenray » Thu May 25, 2017 11:58 pm

On the advice of the steam community, I am posting this forum here to discuss or comment on a campaign I am playing on YouTube.

I pre ordered the game originally. I always really liked the game, even from the start. Seems like there was a lot of drama involved, but it is evident that
this game was created with passion. So I dusted it off recently (in January), and started playing it again. Since I am also interested in making YouTube videos,
it was self evident to put the two together. I posted on steam about this, but that site is a little light on traffic. I too, am passionate about creating art, something
that I find lacking in a lot of YouTube let's play uploaders. This is why I wanted to do one with this game, and create a youtube campaign of highest quality. I really wanted the experience to be more prominent then the trending, or 'selling' of the game being played. That way the artistic experience can be made more manifest.

Anyways, my first 16 episodes are dry, as I am quite the amateur. However, I stepped up my game recently and got software that helps me envision my lets play to the level I aspire to. So if anyone wants to watch the campaign as I journey through this story, start on Episode 17. I would only visit the first 16 episodes as a history or contextual sense.

Here is a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GArIVeV0lpQ

This will get you to Episode 17. Right now I am working on Episode 20. I am a humble man, so if you are interested, please leave feedback and comments below. Also, I have a topic on steam, so that can be used as well. I will probably check this site once a day or every other for a while, so thank you very much for the opportunity to making this come to life!

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Human Campaign being played on YouTube

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Fri May 26, 2017 5:10 am

Welcome to the forums.

After you've completed this match, which faction do you plan on trying next?
Sword of the Stars 2 - Project Hiver modder - work in progress.
Creator of the upcoming Seimei universe.

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marshb
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Re: Human Campaign being played on YouTube

Post by marshb » Fri May 26, 2017 7:46 pm

Cool! Thanks for this, and welcome to the forums!
Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future.

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wolfenray
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Re: Human Campaign being played on YouTube

Post by wolfenray » Fri May 26, 2017 9:44 pm

Thank you for the welcome!

I am really a dull guy, and only like to play humans in any science fiction 4x strategy. I know others like to be the aliens, but I rather like being human, alot! LOL

However, I did play multiplayer a couple years ago, and since he was human, I played as the Hivers. I used to have the Starship Troopers board game a long time ago (before it was a movie franchise), and the bugs in that game had a Viet Cong feel to them. I found that in this game, the Hivers adapt really well to this kind of feel as well. So I really enjoyed their mechanics. Also, I do find their FTL to be the most practical approach, again being able to pop out of any hole at any time like the Viet Cong. So if I play another match someday after this one, it will most likely be the Hivers, hands down.

Right now, though, I am just going to focus on this campaign. It is heating up, and I am really enjoying making these episodes. So far the game has developed into something rich and meaningful, so I am excited to see where it goes. Win or lose, this journey will help me in the future to create a standard of youtube lets play that I always wanted to see. Of course, belief and imagination is the key to good art, in my opinion. :)

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Mecron
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Re: Human Campaign being played on YouTube

Post by Mecron » Sat May 27, 2017 11:32 pm

Secret: I am one of those human guys as well :thumbsup:

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Slashman
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Re: Human Campaign being played on YouTube

Post by Slashman » Sun May 28, 2017 3:00 pm

Mecron wrote:Secret: I am one of those human guys as well :thumbsup:


HA! Everyone knows your really a Morrigi! :googly:

Oh and welcome and good luck with your vids Wolfenray!
If you want a different perspective, stand on your head.

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marshb
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Re: Human Campaign being played on YouTube

Post by marshb » Sun May 28, 2017 11:30 pm

Slashman wrote:
Mecron wrote:Secret: I am one of those human guys as well :thumbsup:


HA! Everyone knows your really a Morrigi! :googly:

Oh and welcome and good luck with your vids Wolfenray!

Pssst! I thought he was related to *whispers* Doom Bot!
Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future.

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wolfenray
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Re: Human Campaign being played on YouTube

Post by wolfenray » Mon May 29, 2017 5:25 pm

Thank you for the responses. I am happy with the work so far, and getting better all the time. It is a great joy for me to produce this series, and though I am not one of the 'big' guys at this, I feel that my work so far is becoming more competent by the episode. :)

So I had a comment on the episode 'Genocide at Dm+ 1 4774' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40N5mWStCLo. Here is the comment...

Do you think the shields are what makes your ships so powerful? You're giving up a lot of guns to mount that shield section. Is the extra survivability worth the dps loss?

This is a really good question, and I thought I would respond to it here at the forums, so as to give insight about the difference between playing a video game, multiplayer or single, vs recording a good let's play campaign.

In any 4x game, we all know the secret to winning them every time. In a single player mode, all you got to do is find the mcguffen, then spam it alot. Then you win. Sword of the Stars is really no different in this regard. Build a lot of high dps space cannons mounted on a cheap chassis and pump them out en masse. Then throw them in. If the enemy can destroy 3 ships in an attack, build 5 or 6 and attack. It is the paint by numbers way to play any 4x strategy game, and developers are always looking to find ways to overcome this method of playing.

This is where multiplayer comes in. Building a gun on a jalopy en masse may not be so effective against another player, as humans have intuition and are much more responsive. Add things like skill and experience with the game, and now you have a whole new bag. Also, you have a whole new set of problems with this as well, as people are fickle to put it kindly. Unlike a single player game, a human can rage quit, name calling, gang up and the like that can turn a really good game into a big pile of drama that is no fun for anybody but the trolls. So both single player and multiplayer have their pros and cons.

Both scenarios are missing the most important part of what a video game is in my mind - a story. I can paint the Mona Lisa by the numbers, but I could never paint the Mona Lisa or the story that caused such art to be created. This is what a Let's Play campaign do for me. So I read in the lore that humans have a short endurance due to the fact that they like to eat. To me, it seems that Sol Force faction is more concerned with the safety and comfort of its men and women on the field then mass producing mindless workers to go die on command. So it seems story immersive to build the ships accordingly. Thus, in my mind, shields and goop would take higher priority over finding the next caliber of rifle. Even though that is important, as a human myself I would rather live and fight another day. If I was playing something like the Hiver, for example, then throwing ships en masse would be a much more viable option, as I see bees do this in real life! LOL

Furthermore, aside from lore, for every hour of game footage I play there is 12 hours of editing to produce the movie itself. I watch Captain Shack of XPGamers, and he goes so far as to name each ship in his Stellaris campaign after a patron. They write a paragraph explaining how the got such a commission, which he reads and highlights. This involves the audience in his campaigns, and if he just threw them away to 'win' the game paint by number, that would be a lot of work lost. Furthermore, his audience would not care either, as it meant nothing. I am up to do that here, so let me know. What I am saying is, that when playing a Let's Play campaign you are gathering footage to progress a story, not to 'win' the game.

I just put this out there, because I see a lot of comments like, 'Why do you not do this cheesy spam' or 'What about the obvious mcguffen' etc. It is valid if I was playing a solo experience. A Let's Play campaign is a storied experience, so I play the game that keeps to character and keeps immersion. Star vessels like the Graf Spee, Fu Ching, Nile, and Esmerelda need to have survivability so that they appear episode after episode. If they do get taken out, then it needs to be epic, and the viewers are more satisfied when they know I did everything to keep it alive. Kind of like the formula Star Trek uses, sometimes the Enterprise gets destroyed, but it is epic. However, in most episodes, the Enterprise survives against all odds. This gives a certain attachment to the ship and her crew.

That is it, give me your thoughts on this.

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Mecron
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Re: Human Campaign being played on YouTube

Post by Mecron » Mon May 29, 2017 9:09 pm

Excellent post about entertaining story telling except for this part...

"In any 4x game, we all know the secret to winning them every time. In a single player mode, all you got to do is find the mcguffen, then spam it alot. Then you win. Sword of the Stars is really no different in this regard. Build a lot of high dps space cannons mounted on a cheap chassis and pump them out en masse. Then throw them in. If the enemy can destroy 3 ships in an attack, build 5 or 6 and attack. It is the paint by numbers way to play any 4x strategy game, and developers are always looking to find ways to overcome this method of playing."

Respectfully...Not so much.

SotS2 AI is not all that it can be but even it tries to adapt. SotS prime was better at adaptation. Also you speak in magical terms where money/resources are no object. If that's the situation then you have already won any empire game. And of course its always funny when someone's paint by number plan is thrown off by unforseen events and the single player rage quits that map and starts a new one till he finds a situation where his "one size fits all" mcguffen strat works and forgets all his failures.

Though I do agree, those guys are big fun to play in MP and one of the major reasons we made MP very resilient to players bailing out :twisted:


But I dunno, lets ask Zed if lots of cheap wins every time? He is the closest thing to a true expert I have seen in the past decade on sots.

ZedF
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Re: Human Campaign being played on YouTube

Post by ZedF » Mon May 29, 2017 10:20 pm

One could approach such a question from a few different angles.

As Mecron suggested, the SotS1 AI is in much better shape than the SotS2 AI. Here I am speaking mostly from experience with the SotS1 AI.

From the point of view of replayability, winning the same way with the same weapons every game would get pretty dull. It pays to mix things up so you know what the pros and cons of various options are, and to keep things interesting. The only real "macguffin" is having a strong enough economy to be able to build enough fleets to conquer your foes, using whatever strategy you have chosen. There is no "must have" beyond that; rather, the details are decided by what strategy you chose and how well you executed it. The fact that one can win with only core technologies is certainly suggestive that looking for specific macguffins to achieve victory is not required.

Supposing, though, that any given player develops a preferred way to win, e.g. by focusing on a particular set of weapons or technologies, would that method work all the time? Generally, if you picked a good method, I'd say you could expect it to work most but not all of the time. Certainly as a general strategy I could choose to, say, tech up to cruisers with armour piercing mass drivers, heavy combat lasers, and point defense, and roll the map with that. Most of the time this would work well, assuming I had built up my economy well enough to afford that. But there are circumstances in which this might not be a winning strategy, and I might have to adapt. What if I had really bad luck finding colonizable worlds, or were hemmed in a corner of the map by a hostile power, or had started the game with map settings which severely restricted my economy, such that I couldn't afford lots of cruisers? What if my rival managed to get deflectors or adamantium to counter my mass drivers? What if he also has armour piercing mass drivers but additionally has neutronium rounds, and I don't? What if I didn't get AP drivers in my tree at all?

If you reduce things down to the point of having a strong economy and building lots of "fleets" to kill your opponents, where "fleet" is defined as whatever will kill your opponents reasonably efficiently, then yes, that's pretty much every 4X. It is a wargame after all! :lol: Even a specific idea of what that means will often work as expected. Most typically, when I am playing SotS, I find it useful to refine my strategy periodically, often sticking with the same general approach but altering details as appropriate. But sometimes, there are devils hidden amongst those details, and while it is rare, I do occasionally find I need to alter my strategy entirely.

Now in SotS2, you start the game already having all the tools you need to conquer a nearby enemy or two -- or at least close to all the tools, depending on map size. So "spamming cheap stuff" is actually pretty viable, against the AI. In SotS1, though, your forces don't start out as strong relative to enemy static defenses, and you are initially missing some tools of convenience needed for rapid conquest. In this context, whether "spamming cheap stuff" will work depends on what it is you have to spam, how fast you can spam it, and how quickly your enemies can develop fleets/defenses that are resistant to your spammed forces. I'm going to have a lot more luck spamming destroyer fleets in the early game as Zuul than as Liir, for instance.
Last edited by ZedF on Mon May 29, 2017 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Human Campaign being played on YouTube

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Mon May 29, 2017 11:15 pm

SOTS2 also starts in the cruiser age so if conquest isn't an immediate priority, you can get right to the Biome Colonisers which in SOTS1 you can't get until you've gotten to Cruiser construction.
The randoms also play a part in SOTS1 early game more than SOTS2 - there's no Morrigi Colony traps in SOTS2 which are not placed by human-controlled Morrigi factions. The randoms in SOTS2 which appear with regularity are also easier to defeat as again, SOTS2 starts in the cruiser age where SOTS1 is the DE age.

.... Jeez, I really need to redo that above to make it hurt my head less to read it. Ohh well.

EDIT: Personal opinion - too much effects and visual editing taking place making it fairly hard to watch. Music is also too loud compared to your voice.
Otherwise it is a good job and you're quite good at voicing what's going on while making it interesting to listen to at the same time.
Still no DNs? :(

EDIT2: If the Liir really are at the "purple engine tech", then they are not far from a certain racial tech they get which gives them an extra layer of permanent armor. This means you'll need to start refitting ships into AP weaponry as otherwise they'll spend more time bouncing off then doing any damage. You can refit ships at any system with I think a LV3 naval station. And dang if I'm not tempted to do MP against\with you, but ehh.
Sword of the Stars 2 - Project Hiver modder - work in progress.
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wolfenray
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Re: Human Campaign being played on YouTube

Post by wolfenray » Tue May 30, 2017 11:29 pm

This is great, thanks for all the good feedback.

I actually thought that I had preordered the game, turns out I had bought the physical copy. Must have installed it early. LOL! Anyways, it has this cool grey poster in it that has a human cruiser with the caption, "This is you" and a huge squid whale thing saying, "This is your enemy" Ha ha, that is rich. That is one of the best box posters ever!

I really like this campaign, three things happened that make it an unconventional playthrough for me. First, a Star Killer came through in my season one videos (Ep. 5 I think). I laugh now as I was on the verge of rage quitting that episode. I was sure a shark had been thrown in and was going to beeline to my capital and systematically wipe me out. That was not the case. Instead, it did knock out a couple of my worlds, but moved on to the other species and proceeded to decimate them as well. So I thought this was well done, giving this crisis equally to the whole of the map and not just to the player. Did break a lot of nodes, but I find it a welcomed environmental challenge to the game. Really redefines my strategy options and methods to overcome it.

Then, it seems that Sol Force faction, "the Sovereignty", can not invent a point defense gun or any gun for the life of them. Instead, things that are rare to get like shields and defensive stuff I get with ease. 14% chance to build a laser PD, 1% chance to build a ballistic PD, but a 84% chance to build a shield and 97% chance to get goop. This is a really good mechanic, I really like it. Really leads to a different vision as to how I should go in this campaign.

Lastly, everybody attacked me at the get go. No diplomacy, just demands and war. This really makes for an exciting game playthrough, as I feel like the new kid in the schoolyard and everyone wants to beat me up. In true prison fashion, I beat them up instead and make them concede peace. Which is very satisfying to have peace that is earned and not given.

I just wanted to point out these things, and how much I appreciate a game that takes these aspects of strategy into consideration. :D

Finally, to reply to Rossinna's feedback, I have research at 50% efficiency. I like to savor my technology, and always make getting it as hard as possible if I have the option. To me, it is more satisfying when you got something others do not, and more urgent when they have something you do not. It is just my personal preference, but I am working on DN's, as a response to the Liir's antimatter technology. So my thought is, instead of trying to outrun or outgun, I will just outclass them altogether. Ha ha. Hopefully it works out!

The voice thing is a known problem. My friends say I sound 20 years younger, and it would be better if my deeper voice came through. Right now I only have a cheap Wal-Mart microphone, but my friends are really supportive of what I am doing and are working together to help me get a better mic. Until then, I just got to work with what I got. I will look into what I can do, so thank you for letting me know about that.

I am at the last of my footage, so one more, then there will be a break for a week or so I can gather more footage for the next set. I really appreciate you watching this work, and the feedback. Also, it seems Mecron, you are a developer of the game, I want to thank you for making it. I can not speak for others, but I really like the game and the poster is the best. I keep the box set as a keepsake, as I know physical copies are becoming a thing of the past.

wolfenray
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Re: Human Campaign being played on YouTube

Post by wolfenray » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:39 pm

It has been awhile since I was last here, but the site is back up and I am glad for it.

I just finished what I considered to be the end of my season 2 of the human campaign. It has been a growing experience for me, to say the least. Episodes 1 - 16 was just straight game play, so that is season 1. Episodes 17 -27 take a more artistic approach, as I got new software to do so, so
that is season 2. I will be making playlists, categorizing them into these formats. This really makes me happy, and I am pleased with the results
SotS 2 has provided while playing this campaign.

As you can see by the finale of season 2 (episode 27), I will be in season 3 exploring a more storyboard approach. Battles will involve DN's and
greater technologies as well. So I am gathering art, screenshots, video clips, et cetera to better portray the story as it unfolds. Of course, I am
not picky as to whether or not it be from SotS, or SotS 2. So if anyone knows where I can access good SotS art, that would be a great help! 8)

Also, all the advise I have recieved has been taken to heart, so that the videos become more enjoyable as time progresses. In episode 27, I took
special care not to 'over edit', but still maintain what I feel is my particular style of cinematography. In season 3 I want to refine this further, so as
to find that 'perfect' balance.

Finally, I also work as a chef in a state university, so what I do here is a labor of love. So, I plan on making a 45 minute episode about once every 2 weeks. I feel that this is a good amount given the time I have, and the other series I am also making as well.

PS. Rossina Sama - I took your advice about gun tracking, and put beams on my fighters. It is featured in Ep 27. Even though the fighters are not
that effective, there was a marked upgrade in their performance. So I think that this is what I will consider in future ship builds. Thank you for the
advice! :)

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Re: Human Campaign being played on YouTube

Post by Nall White » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:37 pm

I watched a few of these and found them funny and entertaining. Brought be back to the game. Also, glad to see this forum alive again!!!
I'm NOT a cat!

wolfenray
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Re: Human Campaign being played on YouTube

Post by wolfenray » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:24 pm

It has been a while, but I am still actively making the human campaign on SotS 2. There has been a lot of support for the videos, and I have grown a lot in the production and vision of them. I am very proud of my latest video, and really like the whole storyboard approach mixed with gameplay. I no longer voice in real time, but more narrate the story instead. Maybe in season 4 i might go back to that. Also, I am going to remaster some of the earlier ones, as they are too long and I was not very good at it. So I am excited for that project as well. I am not a professional YouTuber, so I have real life and can not produce SotS videos more then 1 or so a month. The time I do put in is a labor of love, as I love to do this thing and I am a fan of the game as well. Anyways, check out the new video, let me know what your opinion is. https://youtu.be/iZUpJlWfZcU

BTW thank you for all the recent comments. I am pleased with the helpful criticism and positive responses.

-Wolfenray73-

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