Need details on trade system

Tactics and Action Reports.
Post Reply
Tranquillitatis
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:59 am

Need details on trade system

Post by Tranquillitatis » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:52 pm

Sorry to be always asking questions, but I'm hoping someone can explain how trade income is calculated.

My homeworld's trade income maxes out with the trade slider set at about half. Investigating more closely, I saw that moving the slider from six to seven routes included a developing world whose income is currently negative. Does this mean that some of my homeworld's money is being sent to that colony? If so, what does that mean for my Empire's net income? Does it balance out? Do I lose or benefit if I set my homeworld's trade to max?

Thanks!

User avatar
ivra
Posts: 1346
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:33 pm

Re: Need details on trade system

Post by ivra » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:23 pm

I think it works like this:

For all races except Zuul (no trade) and Morrigi (boosted trade) the following apply:
1) Each DE freighter increase the income by 5000
2) Each CR freighter increase the income by 15000
3) The first trade route in a colony gives an additional 2000. Edited: The first freighter of a trade route earns an additional 2000.
4) It takes 3 turns until the trade route is operational. During the first turns it only gives a small amount of income.

So a colony with one fully operational DE trade route will earn 27000 (5*5000 + 2000). All extra DE trade routes will earn an additional 25000. Similar numbers when using CR freighters are 77000 respective 75000. Notice that it takes 5 freighters to operate one trade route.

For Morrigi the numbers are:
1) Each DE freighter increase the income by 9750
2) Each CR freighter increase the income by 29250
3) The first trade route in a colony gives an additional 3899. Edited: The first freighter of a trade route earns an additional 3899.

Source: I have taken these numbers from games I have played. I am not sure if any Industry techs can affect the numbers, but I do not think so.

Edit: The third point is actually wrong. The first freighter of a trade route earns this additional amount. So for every fully developed DE trade route you will earn 27000, not just the first.
Last edited by ivra on Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

User avatar
silvaril
Kerbicron Cleric
Kerbicron Cleric
Posts: 3631
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:11 pm

...

Post by silvaril » Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:30 pm

Heya

Also, how many freighters do you have in that Trade Sector? ;)

Remember that you can assign up to 5 freighters per Trade Route, and that if you do not have enough freighters then it doesn't matter what you set the Active Trade Routes slider to...
( the game will default to a minimum 1 freighter per Trade Route to keep them active )

Consider that you may have lost freighters to Raiders et al, resulting in you having fewer freighters in that sector than you anticipated...


As stated, starting a new Trade Route produces minimal income for the first several turns for that Route.
So your plateau may also be the difference between initial Route income and full Route income.
silvaril wrote:Love is Love, God is God and I am still Living a Lifetime

Disclaimer:
The views of any individual may not necessarily represent those of "God"(tm)

Tranquillitatis
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:59 am

Re: Need details on trade system

Post by Tranquillitatis » Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:55 am

Ah-ha! So....if I raise the number of trade routes, it could be taking freighters off the profitable trade routes and putting them on unprofitable ones? I guess that could account for my income dropping as I increase the trade slider. Something to watch for.

User avatar
jecjackal
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:54 pm

Re: Need details on trade system

Post by jecjackal » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:59 am

When your filling up trade routes, make sure you have the maximum number of freighters before "upping" the trade route slider (I forgot its actual name). The second you change the slider, you will see a production drop on the world your building the freighter. So in essence, queing up more than 5 ships at a time can slow you down (if you have prematurely changed the slider).

In your case, you mentioned you have several unfilled routes. I would consider collapsing the number of routes to fit the number of freighters. This will give you more production to build the remaining ships you require.

And if youre Morrigi....have fun :D

User avatar
Razed
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:04 pm

Re: Need details on trade system

Post by Razed » Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:25 am

Also, you asked about trade routes to underdeveloped planets. It dosent make a diference if on the other planet there are 10M colonists, or just 5. A trade route is a trade route, it gives you a full profit after its opened and fully shipped.
We need better weapons... <grabs shovel>

User avatar
amtie
Posts: 2395
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 5:11 pm

Re: Need details on trade system

Post by amtie » Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:44 am

You can't run a trade route with a population below a certain size (perhaps 100M civ I think, just a guess).

kjn
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:38 pm

Re: Need details on trade system

Post by kjn » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:15 am

Ivra has several of the numbers (some of which was new to me), but here's a few other things of note:

The trade is abstracted so that all "receiving" planets are the same. A single planet can be the target/receiver of any number of trade routes, and they are all equally profitable (exception: foreign trade, there the profit is split between the originating and the target empire). It doesn't matter if the planet is a hell-rock with 73 colonists, 1.21 infrastructure and 626 planetary hazard or the homeworld – all that matters if it's in a secure trade sector.

The originating planet can have a varying amount of trade routes, depending on population (and the presence of a trade station). Each opened trade route (via the slider) can be made active (ie receive a freighter), and when fully established will bring in 5,000 credits per DE freighter. A trade route can support up to five freighters. If a trade route loses all its freighters, or if the originating or target
trade sector becomes insecure, then the trade route goes inactive.

How to open up trade routes is one of the things that you can do in different ways. Some people prefer to open up trade routes once at a time, as soon as the previous one is filled up. This leaves plenty of IO to build freighters, but means you often have several new trade routes that doesn't give any real profit with several freighters working them.

Another way is to open up the trade routes fast, ie in the beginning you aim for one freighter per trade route. This means you will tie up more IO in trade routes, but the new freighters will have established routes to work earlier.

My preferred method is to follow the second one (open up all trade routes as soon as a freighter can work it), but designate one world in each trade sector as its forge world. This one can build freighters rapidly, and also serve to build sector and planetary defense forces for the neighbouring systems. The home system can usually serve as both a trade world and a forge world for its sector.

Check the SotS wiki for more information about how trade is calculated.

User avatar
MS_Cowboy
Posts: 454
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:56 am

Re: Need details on trade system

Post by MS_Cowboy » Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:49 pm

ivra wrote:For Morrigi the numbers are:
1) Each DE freighter increase the income by 9750
2) Each CR freighter increase the income by 29250
3) The first trade route in a colony gives an additional 3899. Edited: The first freighter of a trade route earns an additional 3899.


When did you take these numbers? Those are nearly double the base trade rate. Last I checked, Morrigi get around 33% more trade, not double. I've also never personally observed bonus income from the first freighter in a route, but I'd have to start a game up and check to be sure.
Blinded by X-ray Lasers

johndunk
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 4:37 pm

Re: Need details on trade system

Post by johndunk » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:36 pm

Here's the link on the Wiki: http://sots.rorschach.net/Trade
SotS1: CC 1.8.0 - SotS2: 18864b

User avatar
AlanF5
Posts: 1492
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:14 pm

Re: Need details on trade system

Post by AlanF5 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:16 pm

Mordachai wrote:IIRC, Morrigi also get a phat bonus when the target of a trade route is an alien civ. So the more that they trade externally, the more they make (or maybe they just get a bigger slice of the split profits when dealing with foreign civs).
I can confirm. I don't have the game in front of me so I cannot post actual numbers, but the bonus is significant. Perhaps 50%?

In my current game, I am playing Morrigi. I've allied with a Human and NAP'd a Liir. Since the Human hates the Liir, but I didn't want to spark a war, I researched Addict Liir. I have numerous trade lanes with the Humans and a few with the Liir. I'll get hard numbers up later today.
Download my zombie outbreak mini-sim: unfortunately, it's not Fort Zombie.

Winner of the "Guess what the zerker discs are an homage to?" race. (The Mandarin's ten rings)

User avatar
MS_Cowboy
Posts: 454
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:56 am

Re: Need details on trade system

Post by MS_Cowboy » Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:30 pm

AlanF5 wrote:
Mordachai wrote:IIRC, Morrigi also get a phat bonus when the target of a trade route is an alien civ. So the more that they trade externally, the more they make (or maybe they just get a bigger slice of the split profits when dealing with foreign civs).
I can confirm. I don't have the game in front of me so I cannot post actual numbers, but the bonus is significant. Perhaps 50%?

In my current game, I am playing Morrigi. I've allied with a Human and NAP'd a Liir. Since the Human hates the Liir, but I didn't want to spark a war, I researched Addict Liir. I have numerous trade lanes with the Humans and a few with the Liir. I'll get hard numbers up later today.


Morrigi trade routes to other races are worth exactly twice as much. However, it is doubled before the revenue is split 80/20 between the two factions, so it ends up being 60% more profitable than a regular trade route for you (100x2=200. 80/20 split = 160 for you, 40 for them). You can double this further with the addict tech for that race of course, for a grand total of 3.2x profit to you over a normal internal trade route (and 0.8x to them, which means they get more from the foreign trade than from one of their own internal routes since 0.8x morrigi route > 1x other race route).
Blinded by X-ray Lasers

User avatar
ivra
Posts: 1346
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:33 pm

Re: Need details on trade system

Post by ivra » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:25 pm

Crazie_Guy wrote:When did you take these numbers? Those are nearly double the base trade rate. Last I checked, Morrigi get around 33% more trade, not double. I've also never personally observed bonus income from the first freighter in a route, but I'd have to start a game up and check to be sure.

I got the numbers from the Trade screen by clicking on the trade sector and looking at the trade list to the left. For a specific game it gives the following numbers:
Syntax: Freighter Type / Quantity / Income
DE / 1 / 13649
DE / 2 / 23399
DE / 3 / 33149
DE / 4 / 42899
DE / 5 / 52649
CR / 1 / 33149
CR / 2 / 62399
CR / 3 / 91649
CR / 4 / 120899
CR / 5 / 150149
This leads to the numbers. Each new DE freighter contributes with 9750, and each new CR freighter contributes with 29250. The first freighter gets a bonus of 3899.

I am currently at war with all the remaining 6 AI players. All settings are on normal. I thought I could generalize from this game since my numbers for the other races seemed to be the same from game to game. I just assumed that the Morrigi had higher values.

And to answer when. The game is at turn 180 :) The version is 1.8.
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

User avatar
MS_Cowboy
Posts: 454
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:56 am

Re: Need details on trade system

Post by MS_Cowboy » Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:58 pm

That's strange. The only hard number I ever took to remembering was the output of a full internal CR route, so that's all I have off the top of my head. But I very specifically remember all my Morrigi CR routes getting nearly 100k, 99 something, almost a perfect 33% boost over the 75k of a maxed non-morrigi CR route. Are you sure the economic setting is normal, and the route is going between your own planets?

I'm gonna start up a game right now to check things again...
Blinded by X-ray Lasers

User avatar
ivra
Posts: 1346
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:33 pm

Re: Need details on trade system

Post by ivra » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:01 am

I get the reported numbers in two of my saved games. And to your questions: “Are you sure the economic setting is normal, and the route is going between your own planets?” the answer is yes. The economy is normal and the route goes between my colonies.

Now, what is strange is that in the third saved game I have playing Morrigi I get the following numbers:
DE / 1 / 9099
DE / 2 / 15599
DE / 3 / 22099
DE / 4 / 28599
DE / 5 / 35099
CR / 1 / 22099
CR / 2 / 41599
CR / 3 / 61099
CR / 4 / 80599
CR / 5 / 100099
In this game each DE freighter earns 6500, and each CR freighter earns 19500. The extra bonus income for the first freighter is 2599. By the way this is actually a 30% increase in all three numbers. Some rounding issues with double numbers just caused 2600 to end up as 2599.

Obviously there are some differences between these games. The only thing I can think of is that the first two games are old. Maybe they are from before the 1.8 patch.
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

Post Reply

Return to “T.A.R.”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests