Need details on trade system

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AlanF5
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by AlanF5 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:05 am

I didn't do a careful one-ship-at-a-time breakdown, but this is what I have for Morrigi, on standard settings:

in-empire:
4 CR: 100,749
5 CR: 125,124

This works out to 24,375 each with a 3,249 bonus just for having the route. The income from a route that is still being established is 1624, or half of the route bonus.

Fake edit: That was at a world with a trade station. I'll try this again with a stationless world.

in-empire:
4 CR: 80,599
5 CR: 100,099

19,500 per CR with a 2,599 bonus for an established route. Before being established, the income is 1,299 or half the established route bonus.

to Humans:
4 CR: 128,959
5 CR: 160,159

31,200 per CR with a 4,159 bonus for an established route. Before being established, the income is 2,079 or half the established route bonus.
This is 60% more take-home than in-empire routes.

The addicted Liir routes are bringing in double the money of the Human routes.

I did find it interesting that the bonus routes from a trade station do not themselves recieve the 25% bonus of the trade station.

Double fake edit: At least Ivra and I are getting the same numbers for the Morrigi. That's promising.
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MS_Cowboy
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by MS_Cowboy » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:48 pm

AlanF5 wrote:in-empire:
4 CR: 80,599
5 CR: 100,099

19,500 per CR with a 2,599 bonus for an established route. Before being established, the income is 1,299 or half the established route bonus.

to Humans:
4 CR: 128,959
5 CR: 160,159

31,200 per CR with a 4,159 bonus for an established route. Before being established, the income is 2,079 or half the established route bonus.
This is 60% more take-home than in-empire routes.

ivra wrote:I
Now, what is strange is that in the third saved game I have playing Morrigi I get the following numbers:
DE / 1 / 9099
DE / 2 / 15599
DE / 3 / 22099
DE / 4 / 28599
DE / 5 / 35099
CR / 1 / 22099
CR / 2 / 41599
CR / 3 / 61099
CR / 4 / 80599
CR / 5 / 100099
In this game each DE freighter earns 6500, and each CR freighter earns 19500. The extra bonus income for the first freighter is 2599. By the way this is actually a 30% increase in all three numbers. Some rounding issues with double numbers just caused 2600 to end up as 2599.

Obviously there are some differences between these games. The only thing I can think of is that the first two games are old. Maybe they are from before the 1.8 patch.

Ah, yes! these are the numbers I remember. ~100k for internal CR route, 160 for foreign without addict. I'm also getting these in my current game. I was really confused for a while there :?
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BlueTemplar
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by BlueTemplar » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:34 pm

There's more weirdness when trade routes are being established:
Other races (supposedly) get +1000 per freighter.
It would seem that Morrigis get -260 per freighter, and the income shown is actually negative, because you can see that the trade route income is subtracted from your income as planetary development in this screenshot:
(1482+1299=2781)
Image
Or the planetary development numbers are wrong.

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Mecron
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by Mecron » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:00 pm

or you havent taken into account the time it takes to establish a trade route?

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BlueTemplar
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by BlueTemplar » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:11 pm

What do you mean?

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amtie
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by amtie » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:32 pm

Trade routes take a few turns (maybe 5) to be fully productive.

Azrael Ultima
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by Azrael Ultima » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:38 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:There's more weirdness when trade routes are being established:


I don't think Blue is unaware of that...
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Nspace
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by Nspace » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:17 pm

It looks like it's working to me. [Probably wrong numbers, see below] Bhaxhai is adding a trade route that goes to the Axhulneb system. Adding a 5 freighter trade route to Bhaxhai's Planetary Budget reduces the negative income from the planet from -9,101 to -1,482, so the trade route with 5 freighters is giving Bhaxhai +7,619 (or +1,523.8 per freighter, about 34% more per than a non-morrigi race as expected). Axhulneb, which we assume is not also still being developed, generates an additional +1,299 income while the route is being established (which is about 17% of what Bhaxhai is generating), which seems about right to me. [/Probably wrong numbers, see below]

I think you were adding the wrong numbers together there BlueTemplar. :) Though honestly, this is a bad example to test out. There is too much going on with Bhaxhai to really test anything: Terraforming, Infrastructure building and Overharvesting, both imperial and Civilian population growth AND resource loss. Too many variables to really isolate anything as being anomalous.

[Edit]Actually now that I'm thinking about it, that 1,299 maps just about perfectly to a 80%/20% split between an establishing planet and a receiving planet. It makes sense that both internal route and external routes would use the same mechanism, it's just that the internal routes capture 100% of the profit while external routes capture only 80%. So to rework my numbers:

Morrigi freighters generate about 1,300 per turn when establishing a route. So that is 1,040 for the establishing planet and 260 for the receiving planet. Axhulneb is generating 1,299 per turn (259.8 x 5), which is added to the Sector 74 income, and Bhaxhai is generating about 5,200 per turn (1040 x 5), which is being eaten up by Planetary Development Costs and so not added to the Sector 74 income. That leaves 2,419 unaccounted for, but most likely attributed to one of the other factors (population growth, overharvesting, the remaining tax revenue not spent on the Trade Route).[/Edit]

[Double Edit] Still got the numbers off. Fixed[/Double Edit]
Last edited by Nspace on Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by Azrael Ultima » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:12 pm

I think he was talking about the difference in the cost of planetary development... I'll assume that Bhaxai is the only planet being terraformed at the time, since otherwise, his argument wouldn't make any sense.

So where do the additional 1299... er... whatevers come from? (Total cost for development that turn is 2781, but Bhaxai only takes 1482)


Basically, you completely missed what Blue was talking about.
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AlanF5
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by AlanF5 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:22 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:There's more weirdness when trade routes are being established:
Other races (supposedly) get +1000 per freighter.
It would seem that Morrigis get -260 per freighter, and the income shown is actually negative, because you can see that the trade route income is subtracted from your income as planetary development in this screenshot:

(1482+1299=2781)
img
Or the planetary development numbers are wrong.

I think you're all overcomplicating/confusing things.

The planetary income is negative because the hazard rating has a cost. It becomes less negative becase you are moving the consruction<->trade slider. The new route, which still has 3 turns to establish, will only earn 1,299 until it is established, regardless of number of freighters. There is no per-freighter anything until the route is established. The 1,299 income from the route is added to the money earned from the construction<->trade slider. That total is still less than the hazard cost of the planet, so you get a negative planetary income number.

There are two income values displayed for the planet in the trade sector view. One is the total planetary income, the other is the income from trade routes only.
Last edited by AlanF5 on Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nspace
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by Nspace » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:23 pm

Sorry Azrael Ultima, I edited my post. I was wrong in my initial numbers and added some other stuff. Check my edit - I think the 1299 comes from Axhulneb. Bhaxhai's development cost decreases from -9,101 to -1,482 with 5,200 of that probably coming from the trade route and the rest probably coming from other factors
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by Azrael Ultima » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:46 pm

Yeah, that edit was before i posted. I just don't think that is what Blue was even talking about.

It's not about how much or little income that route generates, it's about the exact same value miraculously being added to the empire planetary development expenses.
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Nspace
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by Nspace » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:54 pm

Azrael Ultima wrote:Yeah, that edit was before i posted. I just don't think that is what Blue was even talking about.

It's not about how much or little income that route generates, it's about the exact same value miraculously being added to the empire planetary development expenses.


Ahhhhh... Now I see. Sorry, I didn't click on the picture and see the empire planetary development expenses bit. My fault and yeah, that's pretty odd.
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BlueTemplar
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by BlueTemplar » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:38 am

There is no per-freighter anything until the route is established.

Ok, I get it now. It's 1299 because it's 1000+30% morrigi bonus. But there's still this bug : trade for this trade route is first added to total trade, then subtracted as planetary development cost for some reason. Maybe underdeveloped planets are not supposed to get any trade income?

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ProjectLevyDelta
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Re: Need details on trade system

Post by ProjectLevyDelta » Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:08 pm

Azrael Ultima wrote:I think he was talking about the difference in the cost of planetary development... I'll assume that Bhaxai is the only planet being terraformed at the time, since otherwise, his argument wouldn't make any sense.

So where do the additional 1299... er... whatevers come from? (Total cost for development that turn is 2781, but Bhaxai only takes 1482)


Basically, you completely missed what Blue was talking about.


Yes your right. I personally set up the game and that is the only planet being developed. Actually it the only planet other than my Homeworld.

However what I find even more strange is on the next turn (which leaves two turns for establishment still) My Planetary Development Completely dropped to 0

So first it adds trade to Planet Dev. and then it is completely paid off the next turn?? :roll: !blah
Last edited by ProjectLevyDelta on Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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