Putting Things Right...

Talk about all things to do with the sequel to our flagship 4X title.

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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by NebulaSniffer » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:10 am

Hi Mecron,

I've been a fan since the first release of SotS, and I've purchased every expansion. Your game is head and shoulders above every other 4X space game I've played, and your responsiveness to the community was truly exemplary. I'm a developer myself, I've led development teams. I know all about missed deadlines, all-nighters (week after week), lost weekends, lost sleep, relatives whose patience and support we try over and over. That isn't at issue. I can't speak for the other fans, but I'd have been totally OK with you just pushing off the release.

... which is why the events since Friday have been a real stumper for me. Why on earth didn't you just push off the release day and ask some of us old timers to pre-order so that you could keep the lights on? Didn't you think/trust that we would? The real issue here, which I still haven't really heard you address (unless I missed it in your original post), is the fact that some combination of culpability goes to you, Steam, and Paradox for fooling new customers into thinking they were going to get a finished product. When you mislead paying customers like that, the name for it is fraud, plain and simple. I'm still scratching my head over this one because I can't figure out how you could make a call like that (cheat people out of their money).

Seriously, your dev team deserves more from you and whoever else was involved in the decision. I'm sure you understand what a hit your reputation has taken over this. StarCraft II took forever to come out, but when it did, it was finished. What's not cool is that new customers don't know anything about the game, and the quality of SotS I, the hype from marketing, and other things really gave people the impression that the game would be at least playable on day one, if not quite done-done. I've been playing video games since the Pong and the Atari 2600 and you released what I consider to be an alpha. It's not really even a beta yet. (I do see the potential even now however.)

OK, I've said what I really wanted to say, I'm sure none of it is a surprise to you. Having said all that, I still support your company. I think your devs at least deserve my support because your first SotS was clearly a labor of love. Your team deserves the time that the money from the "release" provides; I'm just sorry you didn't come by it honestly (because you could have). Of course I forgive you--god knows I've made some bad calls in my life. But it's not just up to me--it's about those real people that paid real money to you, and don't have a working product in exchange. I'm certainly not going to ask for refund--I know that months from now, SotS II is going to be a kick-ass game and I can wait until then. But even if you give the money back to the people that ask for it--I hope you see that it doesn't make the original decision to hide the state of the product right.

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Thank you

Post by tir-gwaith » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:12 am

Thanks for the update, Mercon. Your statement was what I was looking for, and while my faith in your company flagged a bit, I remembered when SotS (or should we call it SotS1 now?) first came out, and decided some things may not change. I've been around since near the beginning of that (not sure if I was with you at initial release, but way before BoB came out), and I do remember the hiccups, and how things just got better.

While I think the update from the Queen of Lore and Master of (stellar) Archaeology (Arinn) was great in keeping us in somewhat in the loop while your servers were overwhelmed, some of the phrasings weren't "PR" and so started a firestorm over on the Paradox forums that scared me a bit. But the fact that she did post meant you would when you could, and that's what I wanted to hear.

Thanks again. I'll pick up Monday's update, and see if I can play it better, and then check back Friday.

P.S. I will say the "Mission" system for fleets is a bit of a PITA, and I liked the SotS1 version better, esp. with the fact that fleets could get stranded... We'll all see as the improvements roll out.

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Re: Thank you

Post by Will the Great » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:19 am

tir-gwaith wrote:While I think the update from the Queen of Lore and Master of (stellar) Archaeology (Arinn) was great in keeping us in somewhat in the loop while your servers were overwhelmed, some of the phrasings weren't "PR" and so started a firestorm over on the Paradox forums that scared me a bit. But the fact that she did post meant you would when you could, and that's what I wanted to hear.

See, this is one of the things that I've always liked about Kerberos. They don't play the PR Bullshit game. When they've got something to say, they come right out and say it. Compare and contrast with another game developer like CCP, who are so deeply entrenched in PR spin that they can't give a straight answer even when their company's livelihood depends on it.

Kerberos cares more about letting people know what's going on than saving face, and at the end of the day I think that's what's going to pull them through this snafu.

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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by Afoxi » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:31 am

So far my biggest complaint about this entire thing is WHY WAS XACT USED FOR AUDIO?!

Also, some broken combat AI which happens once in a while, but that's nothing.

Meh, can we expect an OST?

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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by Ahzagothis » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:33 am

Been awhile since i've said anything on forums or to you, but I felt time to chime in. I've been a fan since BoB, so missed the crazy start of sots 1, but I think regardless of how it may have been the end result speaks of itself. I now proudly own sots 2, in fact I delayed a gift offer from a friend from last year for this, and despite this shaky launch, I do not regret it, and am not remotely tempted in a refund despite the fact that the crashing issues I have prevent me from even seeing past create game screen. Sometimes you display the snarky badger side of you, but seeing the quality and longevity of the updating ability on sots 1, I have no doubt in the slightest that sots 2 will pull through in the end, and will do so at a much reasonable pace. Here's to hoping you the least stress possible and good tidings, and when sots 2 is up to standards it is in your mind, I hope we'll play again at that time.

Good Luck, and here's to a great company!

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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by Ressev » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:44 am

You have my respect for owning the situation.

Looking forward to the updates, but I still would not mind re-downloading the finished game rather than wait a month.
Win7 Pro - 64bit - 16gigs ram - NVidia card

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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by arcticfireII » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:44 am

So I'm incognito since I can't remember my flippin password for my normal forum account and apparently the email address on it's file is my ancient one. For the record I blame this whole mess on cron not getting in touch with me about beta testing ;) j/k. That being said, chin up kerb, I can see the potential goodness that will be sots2....cron has always come through for us in the past, I have no doubt the team will again.

Soon as I figure out how the hell to play I will crush you all in multiplayer...

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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by chandalar » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:58 am

Although disappointed that it wasn't more polished and game play is almost unworkable, I can certainly see the potential. Clearly, a beautiful effort. Good luck with making it all happen.

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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by VonBargenJL » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:02 am

mecron/martin... im totally in love with sots1, am totally happy, to wait another few weeks for sots2. just please..

i dont understand this mission bullshit. when i send a fleet to a new star system to 'survey' it... why do they have to return? i want them to go to the next system, not come home.

more tooltips, maybe change the weapon things in design interface, i spend a good portion of picking weapons, just trying to figure out which weapon is the one i have, vs the one i'm comparing to in that little graph display.

maybe, like sots1, display total weapon emplacements... curently, when choosing standard vs hammerhead, it doesnt display what's actually changing in a ... visible way.

do these three things, and im happy with you until sots3 comes out

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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by Joush » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:13 am

Dose Kerberose have enough of an income stream and cash reserve to make good on this promises?

In the game's current state it's going to have awful word of mouth. The reviews are going to hit next week and I don't have to tell a professional in the industry that SotS2 is going to be lucky to have a metacritic score of 40. Are you projecting the revenue of SotS2 will cover the development and support cost of getting the game to where it should have been at launch?

We are in a point now where even the development team and publisher can not in honesty recommend that people buy the game, a state where someone might say that they should stop selling the game. Pull it off shelves. Finish it and re-launch.

That's not an option, of course. I'm skeptical that Kerberose can afford to finish the game with the income from selling the broken and unfinished version. Without that income it seems beyond possibility that they could afford to finish a game that will be badly tainted by the reviews that will come out in the next few weeks and stick around forever.

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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by Ravenblade » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:20 am

Alright. Patience it is. I certainly have an understanding for the situation now. The cat in the bag turned out to be C4 with a timer of 3 seconds remaining and as much as you wanted to deliver you couldn't. But know this, despite your acknowledgement that things could have been handled more upfront I am not the one who carries a grudge eternally. Like I have said in another posting, the playerbase of a 4X game is usually more educated and also more resistant to pain. As long as things get steadily corrected I am the one in support and willing to sit this one through.
Ideas are like cream, good ones rise to the top.

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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by alekssandros » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:26 am

like a fan, u hae my complete support Mecron :)

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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by PKing » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:29 am

Really the only thing rustling my jimmies at the moment is this sound bug.

lack of tooltips i can deal with for now but this sudden disappearence of all sound on my computer, especially when i fire torpedoes and missiles, it is very annoying especially when i take most of my calls through my computer.

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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by BeefotronX » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:32 am

As a pre-order buyer, I just want to say I hope things work out well.

I decided to buy SotS1 Complete Collection today as a gesture of confidence. (okay, five bucks' worth of confidence)

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Re: Putting Things Right...

Post by AdmThrawn » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:40 am

I'd like to echo my thanks as well. It is good to know that you are working hard to set things right. Besides, knowing that things will continue to get better over the next month will make it possible for me to set this game aside to play Skyrim from November 11th to the 18th or so. :D Then when I am done with that, I can pick it back up, see that it is even better, and recommend it to all of my friends.

By the way, don't be too discouraged. We can see the great game underneath the problems, and as long as you are working to unlock it's potential, we will be patient and grateful.

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