FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

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ScoSteSal118
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by ScoSteSal118 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:20 am

:D
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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Darv57
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Darv57 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:03 am

I was going to post a response here counting the discussion on post apocalypse, but thought it might be getting a bit off topic.
So...
New Thread:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=50356

On topic:
YAY ENRIS! SHE WRITE THE AWESOME!

Also: Do the Liir have a plan for what to do in case the Black actually dies?

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Erinys
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Erinys » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:02 am

The Black will certainly die some day. The plan for the Liir is to sing on. ;)

There are half a dozen Great Elders now, on the various Liir colony worlds. Any one of them could gird for war if it was absolutely necessary, but a fleet of well-armed Leviathans can also be quite effective.

--Arinn
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Erinys
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Erinys » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:03 am

DarkCecilo wrote:That first bit actually makes me feel a lot better about recent events in my life, thank you. Really.


Welcome. :)

And many thanks for the kind words, all. I'm glad you enjoy the work.

--Arinn
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Homercleese
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Homercleese » Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:24 am

I think I've said it before (on one of the very rare occasions I actually post as opposed to lurk) but once more won't hurt. I truly enjoy your writing, it's sci-fi at it's best, most effective form: good fiction built around an internally consistent universe containing new technologies and problems that ask "what would we do if...?"

Great stuff. And I'm always amazed at just how consistent you maintain it, not only in it's planned novel form, but even through the spontaneous replies on threads like these.

Anyway, to the question. Which I think will only require a 'Yes'.

You said the the Black decided to fundamentally change Liir culture by introducing 'Hide the Thought', but in what way? Simply that this functioned as a mechanism for passing on knowledge about the Suul'ka to those young Liir skilled/talented/strong enough to win at the game (and bear their victory) and therefore ensure that at least some fraction of the Liir population would reach the same conclusion that he had? That the Black Swimmers were a necessity?

Ok, so not such a one word answer, what percentage of the Liir population is aware about the truth of the Suul'ka at the beginning of the Winter Wars? And if it's just the Elders and Swimmers, how do Liir, fresh from winning the game, hide the thought from their immediate family? Considering they were just able to nick it off a much more powerful elder.

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, during the original debate amongst the Liir about what to do with the Suul'ka, was it actually open to the entire population or just the Elders? I know you've called the Liir a gerontocracy so I won't be surprised but did they few decide on a new path for every member of their species without any kind of low level input?

Oooh, and a quick one on Ishii. Just how much of an individual did he remain? And again, a psychic gerontocracy, some form of ideological conditioning is I guess expected, but was it just a perfect alignment of opinions between the two?

Cheers!

Thamuzz
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Thamuzz » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:16 am

Homercleese wrote:You said the the Black decided to fundamentally change Liir culture by introducing 'Hide the Thought', but in what way? Simply that this functioned as a mechanism for passing on knowledge about the Suul'ka to those young Liir skilled/talented/strong enough to win at the game (and bear their victory) and therefore ensure that at least some fraction of the Liir population would reach the same conclusion that he had? That the Black Swimmers were a necessity?


The way I see it, Hide The Thought places Elder Liir under constant scrutiny in a socially acceptable manner. It's kind of hard to hid growing meglomania from a horde of eager youngesters who have a mandate to probe your mind for whatever you may be hiding.

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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Homercleese » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:38 am

But that's the job of that Elder's elders. As has been driven home, Liir society is not one in which the young even have the ability to dissent if the Great Elder does not wish them to. That's the point with the Suul'ka, it's not like the Liir as a whole willingly gave of themselves to satisfy their desires. They simply didn't have a choice, to the level that (if I understand it correctly) they weren't even consciously aware that their current actions were far, far from what they would have been without that all coercive driving force.

Yes the Black did change the Liir with hide the thought in an attempt to keep Great Elders in line but not directly as you state because that would be like informing moths that the bug zapper is their enemy and they need to keep it in line.... by continuing to throw themselves at it. No, the curbing of the threat of new Suul'ka arising is done through the existence of the Black Swimmers and by extension the new Liir Empire. Thus ensuring there will always be multiple Great Elders on other Liir worlds to stop an insane member of their number as well as the world that he has forced to support him.

Belisareus
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Belisareus » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:27 am

Actually something I have been pondering on for some time.

In one of the post about the Liir, remember reading that one of the solutions that the Liir thought about eliminating the threat of a Suulka rise was to commit mass species suicide.

However, the need to eliminate the existing Suulka made them choose to establish multiplanetary polities which could act against a potential future Suulka.

Yet, we had the incident with Biima, which raised the question on whether the above is still valid.

Are the Liir still considering their suicide as an option once all Suulka, old and new are eliminated? Could they go for it and leave their technology and legacy with their Prester Zuul? IS that part of their plan?

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Ludovsky
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Ludovsky » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:42 pm

Erinys wrote:My take on the Apocalypse is pretty simple: the end of the world is not the end of the world.

Every day the world ends for someone. Lives are shattered, homes are destroyed, institutions in which we placed faith and hope are corrupted, governments totter and fall. Wars come and leave behind scarred people, ruined cities, landscapes seeded with unexploded ordinance.

And life goes on. Every day someone wakes up and realizes he is still alive. Every day someone wakes up and realizes that despite the grief, despite the horror, that she can still get back on her feet and do something to help. Every day, people throw off the guilt and the shame of surviving the end, and accept that every end--even the darkest hour of the most painful end--is a new beginning for something. And that they ALWAYS have the option of trying to make it something good.

I do write post-Apocalyptic fiction. Technically the SotSverse is a post-Apocalyptic universe for nearly every star-faring race. The Humans nearly destroyed themselves with their short-sightedness and mutual aggression. The Hivers lost their Queen and their future and descended into bloody Interregnum. The Tarkas lost their entire empire--literally, physically, misplaced a dozen star systems that vanished from local space time. The Liir lost their innocence and had to give up parts of their culture which were sacred to them. The Morrigi lost their pride and had to see their worlds and monuments burn.

The Horde Zuul had to give up their freedom and serve those greater themselves forever. And the Prester Zuul...the Prester Zuul had to give up their gods, and devote themselves to the service of those weaker.

It was the end of the world.

But the end of the world is sometimes just the backstory. ;)

--Arinn


It's a post that is now a few months old but I must say..... this is why I like your writing and universes :)

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Erinys
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Erinys » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:20 am

Many thanks. :)

--Arinn
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ScoSteSal118
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by ScoSteSal118 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:33 pm

from the "Re: *Spoiler* Question about the Lich King" thread in late 2012.
Erinys wrote:In answer to Naja's question: whether the consciousness of the devoured remains really intact in any way is obviously a speculative matter. But all Suul'ka are extremely gifted psionically, and a creature as old and powerful as the Eldest could certainly collect certain personalities like pearls within the greater matrix of himself, for reasons that perhaps only he could fathom. The Lich King remains intact and is allowed to "go out and play", borrowing some of the Traveler's power and abilities to do so.

For other Suul'ka, annihilation of the consumed is almost guaranteed. The Cannibal has little curiosity about the thoughts and feelings of his victims; he only wants to feed. The Bloodweaver, by contrast, is a naturally curious entity, and indeed the extension of his life is largely in service to his endless curiosity. A particularly intelligent or insightful scientist's mind might be rolled around like candy for years or even centuries, preserved as a pattern to be consulted.

The outcome of being consumed, in other words, is very dependent on the particulars of the psychopath involved...and sometimes on how you have behaved. You can earn a clean death from the Kraken, by fighting valiantly. If you damage the Siren, by contrast...you can expect to be punished.

--Arinn


from this thread in late 2013.
Erinys wrote:Nope. The two are connected but not identical. Your psionic self and your physical self are essentially Siamese twins. They grow naturally together and when you die they naturally part ways. Your material substance breaks down through the carbon cycle, your mind dissolves back into the Song...unless you get eaten.

In which case you're trapped in the cage of someone else's mind, someone else's flesh (or whatever other container they put you into)...forever. Or for as long as it takes for someone to free you.

There will be many, many souls that owe their freedom to Chezokin, for example. ;) The Cannibal is not just a fiend and a glutton. He's a rotting prison, an endlessly swimming hell full of damned souls who have done nothing to deserve an eternity of torment.

--Arinn



Hello, Erinys, I have a question about canon. It seems to me that there may be the potential for a canon conflict or confusion here (ie. what happens to the minds/psionic selves of entities that are life-/psi- -drained). Would you please consider elaborating on/clarifying this topic?

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Erinys
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Erinys » Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:18 pm

Being eaten is not identical to being dead.

Some Suul'ka have more acidic "digestion" than others, if you want to pursue the metaphor. But the fact that you've lost all sense of who you are and anything you once understood or loved or thought was beautiful...does not mean that you cannot suffer pain, fear, and rage.

--Arinn
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Ludovsky
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Ludovsky » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:38 pm

Erinys wrote:Being eaten is not identical to being dead.

Some Suul'ka have more acidic "digestion" than others, if you want to pursue the metaphor. But the fact that you've lost all sense of who you are and anything you once understood or loved or thought was beautiful...does not mean that you cannot suffer pain, fear, and rage.

--Arinn


..... this kind of bring a very very terrifying image of what one must psychically feel when encountering a Suul'ka... D:

ScoSteSal118
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by ScoSteSal118 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:42 pm

:shock: That was a really elegant and horrifying way to clarify that... Thank you.

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Erinys
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Re: FACTION: The Liir-Zuul Alliance

Post by Erinys » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:48 am

Ludovsky wrote:
..... this kind of bring a very very terrifying image of what one must psychically feel when encountering a Suul'ka... D:


Yes. To a sensitive psionic being, you are literally encountering Hell. A massive prison of damned souls, all dominated by one malign Will.

--Arinn
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