So I bought this yesterday

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Zweistein
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So I bought this yesterday

Post by Zweistein » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:38 am

As oyu may or may not know sots is on sale right now on steam, so since Sots2 AI is brain-dead and I have no one to play it with, but the game looks cool I decided to buy sots 1. I decided to play Liir, because I love their research powerhouse. This allowed me to invest less into research and more into colonisation. All was going well until I met Hivers. My initial plan of peaceful contact went to hell as they opened fire on sight and obliterated my duo of destroyers. After that I thought they are Hivers and I was snooping around a fair distance from my space so I don't need to worry about them. Besides I also met Zuul on the other side of known space so I decided I'm going to do a massive colonisation wave, grab as many planets as I can then focus on research and only start building a fleet when I must. Little did I know that time has already passed.

25 Turns later...

They are coming. We can see their ships slowly approaching and we cannot win. Their cruisers are too strong and our treasury is stretched to the limit with all the new colonies. We cannot outproduce them and every colony they invade goes silent. In this war our casualty ratio is 4-1. What have we done to anger them? We meant no harm yet they inflict it on us. And in the background, in the darkness of space, far beyond these insect sensors, the destroyers are preparing for war.


TL;DR I'm getting my ass kicked by normal AI. If sots 2 AI ever reached this stage the game would be 100% better.
We will sing their nightmares to them.

ZedF
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Re: So I bought this yesterday

Post by ZedF » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:32 pm

Learning the ropes in SotS1 isn't too hard, but the AI has been tweaked over the years such that a certain basic familiarity with the game is assumed, and if you don't yet have it the AI seems aggressive. :) There are plenty of threads with pointers around if you want them, or you can always ask questions and people are usually happy to help. Alternatively, if you'd rather explore on your own, that's fine too!

Incidentally, for SotS1 reports and questions about single player games usually go in the TAR forum.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Zweistein
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Re: So I bought this yesterday

Post by Zweistein » Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:40 pm

The first question is: How did this end up in a multiplayer discussion? Oops
I'd like to learn this myself. I'm going to try and salvage the situation and if I end up loosing that's good too. Next time I'm not going to wait this long to get cruisers as liir :P Their destroyers drop like flies.
We will sing their nightmares to them.

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BlueTemplar
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Re: So I bought this yesterday

Post by BlueTemplar » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:18 pm

Liir have this dilemma in the early game :
- either you go for Fusion (+drive) to compensate for their slow strategic and especially tactical speed. HH/Armor/Fusion Stutterwarp destroyers with x-ray lasers trying to stay at maximum range so that the enemy can't effectively hit them (not too hard against Fission foes, considering Liir maneuverability) can be quite deadly.
- or you go for CR, which are a lot more expensive (though Biomes might quickly compensate for that), can't defend multiple systems properly without Fusion, and those Fission CR will end up relatively useless once you do get Fusion(+drive).

Thankfully, Liir research bonus means they can get both almost as fast as any other race just one of them.

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Zweistein
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Re: So I bought this yesterday

Post by Zweistein » Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:44 pm

BlueTemplar wrote:Liir have this dilemma in the early game :
- either you go for Fusion (+drive) to compensate for their slow strategic and especially tactical speed. HH/Armor/Fusion Stutterwarp destroyers with x-ray lasers trying to stay at maximum range so that the enemy can't effectively hit them (not too hard against Fission foes, considering Liir maneuverability) can be quite deadly.
- or you go for CR, which are a lot more expensive (though Biomes might quickly compensate for that), can't defend multiple systems properly without Fusion, and those Fission CR will end up relatively useless once you do get Fusion(+drive).

Thankfully, Liir research bonus means they can get both almost as fast as any other race just one of them.



I am just learning this. fission cruisers are pretty bad. Also since I played Sots 2 I never realised that here were CCC ships in Sots 1 as well. Only realised when I started noticing that my enemy was fielding 5 cruisers vs my 2. My body still hurts from that encounter.
We will sing their nightmares to them.

The Apprentice
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Re: So I bought this yesterday

Post by The Apprentice » Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:38 pm

Zweistein wrote:... picked up SotS Prime..


Hope you enjoy it! I had a lot of fun with prime- one of my favorite space empire games. I learned quite a bit from these forums and the wiki- ZedF in particular helped me learn a bunch.
Feel free to call me App- it's shorter.

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Zweistein
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Re: So I bought this yesterday

Post by Zweistein » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:26 pm

Can someone tell me if there is an armour tech in sots 1 like there is in sots 2? Hivers are ripping me a new one, on the other hand I'm trading (cruisers) with Zuul fairly well.

Also since this game starts in destroyer era and goes through cruisers to dreadnoughts I realised that liir aren't as strong in the mid game as in sots 2. In sots 2 going for a DN with Liir-zuul alliance is pretty much a no brainer. That way you are still slow strategically and tactically but you can do alot with your ships. In sots 1 I basically made a similar move as I did in sots 2, but I went from DE to CR and expected the same results as Sots 2 CR to DN. Boy was I wrong. I should have researched more long range torpedoes and better missiles rather than going for plasma. My ships are droping like flies versus the hivers stormers and heavy drivers.
We will sing their nightmares to them.

The Apprentice
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Re: So I bought this yesterday

Post by The Apprentice » Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:42 pm

In Prime, I remember lots of jokes about the Liir ships being made of wet tissue paper. The hivers have naturally higher armor values, in addition to a greater chance at armor techs.

There are lots of ways for the Liir to win, of course, but I don't recall Liir going toe to toe with Hivers being one of them... When I played Liir (which was not often), I had large CR fleets to try and leverage the Liir's generally superior weapon tech. A fleet of CR hulls was able to field far more weapons that a fleet of DN's.
Feel free to call me App- it's shorter.

ZedF
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Re: So I bought this yesterday

Post by ZedF » Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:41 pm

Zweistein wrote:Can someone tell me if there is an armour tech in sots 1 like there is in sots 2? Hivers are ripping me a new one, on the other hand I'm trading (cruisers) with Zuul fairly well.

Absolutely. If you are interested in looking at the tech tree and the chances for each race to get various techs, you can find a very helpful graphic on the wiki (see main page of these boards for a link) and there is also a Tech tree java app stickied on the TAR forum, IIRC. Note that the Liir have the second worst chances of getting metal armour techs after the Zuul; they are more into reflective coat and shields than metal armour. Even so, there are 3 possible links to the basic armour so your odds are fairly good of being able to get some, somehow.

Note that Liir ships are expensive and Zuul ships are cheap, so if you are trading cruisers 1:1 then you are not really doing all that well yet. :)

Also since this game starts in destroyer era and goes through cruisers to dreadnoughts I realised that liir aren't as strong in the mid game as in sots 2. In sots 2 going for a DN with Liir-zuul alliance is pretty much a no brainer. That way you are still slow strategically and tactically but you can do alot with your ships. In sots 1 I basically made a similar move as I did in sots 2, but I went from DE to CR and expected the same results as Sots 2 CR to DN. Boy was I wrong. I should have researched more long range torpedoes and better missiles rather than going for plasma. My ships are droping like flies versus the hivers stormers and heavy drivers.

Note that the balance points are quite a bit different in SotS1 as compared with SotS2, so in general it's not a good idea to assume the same strategies and tactics will work the same way. As just one example, research in SotS1 and SotS2 follow very different flows and have very different levels of cost-effectiveness compared to one another.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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BlueTemplar
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Re: So I bought this yesterday

Post by BlueTemplar » Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:40 pm

If you don't want to spoil yourself the discovery of all the techs, you might want to check the relevant pages on the wiki :
http://wiki.swordofthestars.com/sots1/Main_Page

However, if seeing the full tech tree from the start isn't bothering you, this one with tooltips and links to the wiki is probably the best one :
http://chariot.nickersonm.com/ANY_TechTree.html

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