Bastard Sword of the Stars 3.0.2

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Warcat
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Re: Bastard Sword of the Stars 2.0b! (updated)

Post by Warcat » Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:32 pm

Blue Templar wrote:Why not 10 minutes at that point?

Yep, that was my 4 minute limit way of playing :)

With what game settings?

Hard AI, usually 15 - 20 stars per player, 100 - 150% menace, everything else standard

Alpha Centauri
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Re: Bastard Sword of the Stars 2.0b! (updated)

Post by Alpha Centauri » Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:30 pm

:D It's funny how - with a game like Sots, Civ4, DW:U, etc., 3 different people can have three totally different takes on balance and typical outcomes. I think one's play-style* is critical to the feel & balance you experience.

I've been finding the fission era to be too long**. lol. :D

I tried reducing the RP of the entire game - but now I'm finding Fusion to be too quick. I like this setting better for a multiplayer game - and I'll include some quick options in my next release. I'll produce a number of MasterResearch.tech files - as I do now - but include some that are simply quicker (for MP or just a fast game) and include a simple BAT file to select the one you want to play with.

1. Standard
2. Faster
3. Fastest!

Or somesuch...

If I ever write / design / am involved with the design of a game of my own - a major priority will be to have dynamic difficulty built-in. How much boost the AIs get will depend directly on how the player is doing - to give "easy, normal, hard, really hard, insane" levels of competition at most times, rather than fixed boosts***.


* and I include typical starting setups - since I have a few I vary amongst - there are still greatly more setups I don't typically play than those I do.
** when playing not-Liir. Humans, Tarkas. Liir ... damn Sots for not letting me mod the racial values, such as the 50% tech boost that Liir get, or the -50% deficit that Zuul get.
*** I am aware that is much easier said than done. Still would make this a priority. And always - always tie bonuses / restrictions to size of map. Always. Always Always Always.
---

As to making mines not timeout - I think the issue was that Kerberos didn't want to have too many objects to keep track of - so auto-timeout meant that ordinance was erased from graphics memory, the scene, and from itself reducing the loads on CPU, GPU, RAM, and VRAM. However - all of those are orders of magnitude faster now - so perhaps simply setting the timeout to 11 mins is the right thing to do now? It's certainly worth a try (though my PC is in top 5-10% of PCs available, always).

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SpardaSon21
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Re: Bastard Sword of the Stars 2.0b! (updated)

Post by SpardaSon21 » Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:28 pm

I don't think a few extra mines will really bother a modern-ish PC, not with the way tech has progressed. Ideally IMO I'd love to see an HD model and texture re-do for SotS to take advantage of the higher RAM and better CPU's and GPU's these days. It doesn't need to be anywhere near as good as SotS 2, but that still leaves a very broad range for improvement. Also, IIRC SotS 1 does support auxiliary thrusters like we see in SotS 2 (IIRC the Hiver Hammerhead section has a couple up front on it), but the devs didn't add them on due to system demands, so that could be a potential thing to consider adding on as well.

Alpha Centauri
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Re: Bastard Sword of the Stars 2.0b! (updated)

Post by Alpha Centauri » Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:58 pm

Anyone who is willing to take up 3D modelling or skinning is more than welcome to do face-lifts or updates to ships.

Me - I'll stick to the logic side of things, and pray Warcat can / will do the modelling required for tech tree changes.
I will probably need him (or others) to make or find huge turret models for the new projector-based huge weapons for 3.0. We'll have to figure out for the existing DN models where to trade up from smaller mounts to larger ones - e.g. large->huge, some med->large, and some small->med.

That's going to mostly be work I do - just updates to the .shipsection files & iconplacement files - but we may well find that some modelling changes are necessary.

e.g. the "projector" or "war" DN sections absolutely suck. So whether they can be made good just from changing the firing angles allowed... or much more likely... whether we need to alter some of those models to put guns in more useful locations... I'm not sure.

NOTE: I'm testing the "mines don't self-destruct" now.

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BlueTemplar
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Re: Bastard Sword of the Stars 2.0b! (updated)

Post by BlueTemplar » Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:34 pm

SpardaSon21 wrote:Ideally IMO I'd love to see an HD model and texture re-do for SotS to take advantage of the higher RAM and better CPU's and GPU's these days. It doesn't need to be anywhere near as good as SotS 2, but that still leaves a very broad range for improvement.

Higher polygon models are possible :
Image
But more, larger textures might quickly run into the 32-bit limits of the game :
http://steamcommunity.com/app/42890/dis ... 1461265669

Alpha Centauri
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Re: Bastard Sword of the Stars 2.0b! (updated)

Post by Alpha Centauri » Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:26 am

Nice models - though TBH that's a lot of work for a mild payoff. I like good looking graphics - but I'll happily take better game mechanics over that any day :)

FYI - the minelayer sats with only one launcher and halving the rate of fire for mines and making them last an entire combat (660 seconds - just to be sure!) are excellent. They - so far, don't feel OP, at least not with antimatter mines vs. incoming fleet of Zuul CRs. Some of the Zuul CRs were able to successfully raid my Liir world for slaves, but they definitely took some nice damage. Plowing through the satellite screen meant they cleared the mines (violently) and were able to launch their scavengers (or whatever they're called). But the mines acted like I've always wanted them to in Sots - to create a mine-zone for enemies to have to cross. It was sweet!

I'm only adding the minelayer sats in the one size - DE - for now. Maybe always. To keep it interesting / honest.

Hopefully this will feel fun to you guys as well. I'm sure liking it. :D

Warcat
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Re: Bastard Sword of the Stars 2.0b! (updated)

Post by Warcat » Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:23 am

Alpha Centauri wrote:Anyone who is willing to take up 3D modelling or skinning is more than welcome to do face-lifts or updates to ships.
Any help is appreciated. Always! :)

pray Warcat can / will do the modelling required for tech tree changes.
Man, you don't need to pray me, I'm in :googly:

I will probably need him (or others) to make or find huge turret models for the new projector-based huge weapons for 3.0. We'll have to figure out for the existing DN models where to trade up from smaller mounts to larger ones - e.g. large->huge, some med->large, and some small->med.


e.g. the "projector" or "war" DN sections absolutely suck. So whether they can be made good just from changing the firing angles allowed... or much more likely... whether we need to alter some of those models to put guns in more useful locations... I'm not sure.

Alpha, I was waiting for your recovery from your surgery to keep this mod alive, so I'm very happy to help you! And I agree there's need of some love for those DN sections, at least considering the new ideas we'll bring in the 3.0 version.
Of course I think we need to agree about the DN's design/balance before I may start modeling some sections of them, while for the projector mount classes I may start right now (for instance I'd like to see a ballistic projector like the rail gun from the Transformer's movie...)

Alpha Centauri
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Re: Bastard Sword of the Stars 2.0b! (updated)

Post by Alpha Centauri » Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:06 pm

Awesome! I love that turret!

I'd say lets focus on getting the turrets first - defining what weapons belong on huge mounts - and do the projector / war DN sections last. Hell, we can even scrap those sections if need be.

Also - if we can - CR projector sections should be spinal, not the ugly sections that they are now. (that's my desire anyway).

Warcat
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Re: Bastard Sword of the Stars 2.1

Post by Warcat » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:33 am

Alpha, was it intentionally that you didn't announce the update? Because there's an update even if you posted nothing to show it up. So... I did it for you!

Hey, there's a new update here, come on people, try the new BSotS 2.1 version!! :)

Alpha Centauri
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Re: Bastard Sword of the Stars 2.1

Post by Alpha Centauri » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:06 pm

Warcat wrote:Hey, there's a new update here, come on people, try the new BSotS 2.1 version!! :)

Just wanted to get it out, and was too lazy to format a whole long thing for it. So far. Maybe I'll do that later :D

BSOTS 2.1 Enhancement Synopsis
  • PD Systems have been rebalanced
  • Ship nomenclature has been normalized: Barrage = lots of torpedos, Assault = lots of assault lasers, Combat = Mixed specialized armament, Battle what it has always been, and War = lots of heavy mounts.
  • Shields are an option on most DE mission sections and most CR bridge sections to allow you to choose them without sacrificing firepower (the "shield" sections are no longer part of the mod at all)
  • Early (Fission Age) tech is greatly reduced in cost allowing you to get your empire going with relevant choices earlier in the game.

BSOTS 2.1 Change log from 2.0c to 2.1
  • Majorly reduced cost of gravboats (1/2)
  • Increase repair capacity for Morrigi salvage vessels
  • Fixed "Give Up To X.pl" script to not mess with xeno techs
  • Fixed Tarka CRFission and CRPulsedFission sections medium mount to not fire into mission section
  • Increased planetary missile ranges (were too short)
  • Fixed Heavy Plasma Torpedo impact effect (removed the green coloration)
  • Fixed PD Missiles speed to be faster than the fastest drones (2x former speed)
  • Fixed PD Missiles damage to be much more lethal - 3x as powerful (~4 hits should kill a drone)
  • Forced bio missiles to require target be in range & have LOS (not sure what effect this will have - attempting to force players to have to be closer in to launch bio missiles at enemy planet)
  • Fixed Hiver CRBarrage.shipsection to require heavy beam weapons (not large weapons)
  • Environmental Tailoring is core technology
  • Gravitational Adaptation is more likely
  • Drone Combat is significantly cheaper (making this a more viable early game option)
  • Minelaying satellites!
  • Mines drop at 1/2 their previous speed to make them not so OP (after all of the other upgrades we've given them)
  • Reduced beamer tracking speed (but they upgrade to be as good as before by X-Ray)
  • Miscellaneous minor tweaks (e.g. the preview image of Human Constructors fits in the designer screen properly)
  • Shields are available on most sections (almost all ships can have shields)
  • Pulsed lasers are less likely to reflect off of uncoated (unarmored) targets
  • DE Strafe sections are less nimble (-10 to rotation speed)
  • DE Hammerhead sections are more nimble (+10 to rotation speed, +5 to movement speed)
  • DE Bridge sections are more nimble (equal to strafe)
  • CR Strafe sections are less nimble (-5 to rotation speed)
  • CR Hammerhead sections are more nimble (+15 to rotation speed, +10 to movement speed)
  • Mines remain during a combat, they don't self-destruct.
  • Fixed: Many large weapons previously required Cruisers or Dreadnoughts - now they don't because they can be mounted on standard satellites! (projector based weapons do require CR or DN research)
  • Fixed: Pulsed lasers and Beamers had estimated damage values which were confusing to the AI. AI was mounting basic lasers over improved beamers.
  • Fixed: Most dual weapons had already been adjusted to fire 1.33x slower than single turret varieties, but hadn't had their estimated damage values updated which affected the AI's ability to choose them correctly
  • Phasers are now in the laser / beamer family - meaning that they ARE affected by reflectives (though they have the best resistance to ricochet effects) (this may allow reflective coated drones to last longer)
  • Armors are now available regardless of what weapons tech you have (AP weapons still require that you research armor first)
  • Reflectives are now available regardless of whether you have researched lasers or beamers
  • Beast Plague and Assimilation Plague are no longer available
  • Police cutters are available from start & cheaper (but are very limited designs which cannot travel amongst the stars at all)
  • Autocannons have reduced recoil and mass for less knocking ships about (they use micro sized bullets after all)
  • Tweaked: Light Autocannons were too weak. They fired constantly - and took forever to do any damage to a target. Their damage been increased by 20%, and their deflection has been reduced by 50%. Medium and Heavy Autocannons were similarly adjusted to scale with light autocannons.
  • Tweaked: PD systems. Laser PD has been slightly improved - fires every 1.5 seconds instead of every 1.8. Ballistic PD very slightly improved. Phaser PD nerfed - fires every 2.5 seconds instead of every 2.0. Emitter PD adjusted: fires 3.0 seconds instead of 2.8, but sustains its beam for 1 second instead of .5. Shotgun PD should be very significantly improved: the dispersion of bullets has been reduced by a factor of 10x, so that they should mostly strike their target instead of being a harmless cloud that misses.
  • Cost of Fission era technology has been reduced by 2/5ths. So it should be possible to explore more of the fission tree before fusion comes of age. Should get new games going a little quicker.
  • Updated energy weapons tech tree from Warcat to include link from beams to assault lasers.

MZ0125
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Re: Bastard Sword of the Stars 2.0b! (updated)

Post by MZ0125 » Thu May 19, 2016 11:40 pm

Alpha Centauri wrote:I'll let you know if they are self-destructive.

Seems like my minelayer ships don't blow themselves up running over their own mines...

EDIT: Works!!!! :D

They just fly in orbit dropping the mines. I only put a single minelayer on each sat - and it flings it a bit at random (depending on the "facing" when the mine is released) - so there's a dispersion pattern. But even when they "run over" their own mines - the mines don't react (and because sats are slightly above the normal orbit, the mine passes just underneath and doesn't physically bump into the sat).

Looks great - and the number of mines is relatively few, so a menace to attacking ships, not an OP effect. :love:


Implosion mines seems to be able to suck in the sats to an extent... on the other hand, Leaping Mines are very powerful with Minelayer sats.

Alpha Centauri
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Re: Bastard Sword of the Stars 2.1

Post by Alpha Centauri » Sat May 21, 2016 11:20 pm

I've enjoyed using regular mines. I haven't had a chance to use leaping, but I'm sure they're ridiculous. In a good way. :D

Alpha Centauri
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Re: Bastard Sword of the Stars 2.1

Post by Alpha Centauri » Sun May 22, 2016 4:43 pm

Huh... has anyone gotten the nanite or corrosive minelayer drones to work?

My current game - Liir - cruiser drone tenders carrying nanite laying drones... no mines are laid. None.

I turned on "auto fire" - as nanite missiles have to be manually fired... but that made no difference.

UPDATE:
I have fixed this in my current copy. I'll post an update when I have more to publish.
Caveat: it is likely that smart nanites will not protect you against nanite mines, unfortunately - because I can find no way to make these mines work at the same time as informing the mars.exe that this is in fact a nanite based weapon.

But that seems a very minor, if far from ideal, issue, to me

Alpha Centauri
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Re: Bastard Sword of the Stars 2.1

Post by Alpha Centauri » Tue May 24, 2016 1:10 pm

However... I've had to remove the mines-live-forever tweak. They just bring even a high-end PC to a crawl if you put them on drones.

... maybe a better answer is to not allow them on drones?

They are rather crazy dangerous to yourself. Especially the nanite and corrosive ones.

...otoh, they're awesome blooming in great hordes...

Alpha Centauri
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Re: Bastard Sword of the Stars 2.1

Post by Alpha Centauri » Tue May 24, 2016 3:03 pm

drages wrote:Having mines at attack drones is not making much sense to me. Mines are defensive weapons and its great at defensive buildings.

I am waiting weapon slot upgrade for this mod to play more.

Yeah, I need to do that. 'tis a bunch of work, and haven't been in the mood to do it. It's not a little at a time kind of thing, more like a big all at once.

But this time is letting me really explore all the stuff I've already added but never got around to really testing properly. so I can get all of that better balanced / fixed / removed if necessary...

Speaking of which: Anyone have ideas for how to make the gatling cannons more... interesting / fun?

I find them to be too low damage output. Also rather similar to both regular mass drivers and to stormers, so not really distinct.

Thoughts?

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