SotS1 SG17

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ZedF
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by ZedF » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:14 am

Did you design a refinery with a disruptor shield? If not we will likely need that. Baltar should be the next Locust target so I hope Abyss can get enough defences up there in time. If it also falls then the Locusts will probably split and we'll be in some actual trouble.

Remember that you might need to adjust the turn timer upwards temporarily and/or reload to take a couple cracks at taking out the locusts if things don't go well the first time.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

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ZedF
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by ZedF » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:20 am

ZedF wrote:If you've played turns, then go ahead and finish up Starknight. I just need to know if you guys are swapping permanently, in which case I will update the player roster accordingly.

Abyss wrote:I was under the impression we were still doing the original order, so go ahead and finish up your turns Starknigtht, and then I'll take my set.

The turn order in the first post of the thread has been adjusted to put Abyss after Starknight.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

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Starknight
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by Starknight » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:41 am

ZedF wrote:Did you design a refinery with a disruptor shield? If not we will likely need that. Baltar should be the next Locust target so I hope Abyss can get enough defences up there in time. If it also falls then the Locusts will probably split and we'll be in some actual trouble.

Remember that you might need to adjust the turn timer upwards temporarily and/or reload to take a couple cracks at taking out the locusts if things don't go well the first time.


Ooh. Forgot to do a disruptor shield refinery, but still managed to get two of them to blow up close to the mothership. Thinned the drones out a lot. I really think it was just that I didn't have enough time to kill the mothership - hitting it in deep space would probably be best, so we could get a couple of rounds in without it repairing.

I could reload from an earlier save and give it another go if you'd like, I was under a bit of time pressure yesterday.
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by ZedF » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:02 pm

Sure, why don't you give it another shot. I'm ok with reloads here given how much our variant restriction is curtailing the amount of firepower it's possible for us to bring to bear.

If you choose to adjust the turn timer, remember that it takes a full turn for adjustments to the turn timer to apply so you'll need to reload at least 2 turns before the battle takes place. Also remember to set it back afterwards. If instead you choose to abandon Aaryn and hit the locusts in deep space after Aaryn is eaten so we can get a second crack before it repairs, that's fine as well, but remember we will need to keep building ships after putting together the initial fleet, with the expectation of further Locust battles; if we are fast enough we might even be able to repair and get a second hit in deep space and a possible third hit at Baltar.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by Starknight » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:25 pm

ZedF wrote:Sure, why don't you give it another shot. I'm ok with reloads here given how much our variant restriction is curtailing the amount of firepower it's possible for us to bring to bear.

If you choose to adjust the turn timer, remember that it takes a full turn for adjustments to the turn timer to apply so you'll need to reload at least 2 turns before the battle takes place. Also remember to set it back afterwards. If instead you choose to abandon Aaryn and hit the locusts in deep space after Aaryn is eaten so we can get a second crack before it repairs, that's fine as well, but remember we will need to keep building ships after putting together the initial fleet, with the expectation of further Locust battles; if we are fast enough we might even be able to repair and get a second hit in deep space and a possible third hit at Baltar.


All right. I have a save at 154, I think; I can reload from that and do a few things differently. With a longer combat round, I think I can stop them at Aaryn, although we'll probably still lose the colony. Expect a new set of results this evening.
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by Abyss » Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:54 pm

I believe in you! Exterminate those Locusts!

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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by Starknight » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:16 pm

Abyss wrote:I believe in you! Exterminate those Locusts!


Aww, thanks!

Only posting the changed bits from my previous post...

Turn 154:
LET'S DO THE TIME WARP AGAIN!

Locusts due at Aaryn in 6 turns. Fleet on the way to recolonize Zenla. Still no Disruptor Shields.

A08 Hopeful Audition sent to Excalibur to resupply, then will strike at Isis. 2 more Liir CRs incoming to Na'may'shu; fleets will linger to destroy enemy vessels and clear satellites. 3 ships incoming to Egoun, which is cleared; wait to destroy them.

A01 Tick Tock failed to reach Uursh, and the Liir have 18 ships incoming to reinforce. Redirect to Trantor.

IT:
Wester, Xhubasos - peace

Trantor - no enemy ships detected going in. Young colony, destroyed with no losses.

Ushoba - 12 DEs, 10 CRs vs. 3 DEs, 2 CRs, 15 sats and the planet. Fusion projectors on the CRs as well as Positron Beams. 1 CR and 2 DEs lost to destroy enemy ships, 3 LDs, 1 MD (scanner), and do about 25% damage to the planet.

Na'may'shu - 21 DEs, 18 CRs vs. 2 DEs, 3 CRs, and 7 sats. Lose 2 DEs to destroy all the enemy.

Egoun - 10 DEs, 10 CRs vs. 3 CRs. The 'Wave' class of ships are Biome Colonizers; wiped out after a long chase.

Ko'Velan - Our ally still has 14 CRs (some damaged) vs. 5 CRs, 20 sats, and the planet.

Turn 155:
4 enemy Biomes incoming to Ushoba; we're staying to kill the colony, no problem with a few ships.

Disruptor Shield overbudget - max research. Fleets at Na'may'shu sent back to Wiira to refuel. A01 Tick Tock will need to refine fuel at Trantor. A06 Splendid Isolation sent back to Wiira.

Zenla recolonized, Tully colonized, Melnitz colonized.

IT:
Wester, Xhubasos - peace

Ushoba - 10 DEs, 9 CRs vs. 4 CRs (Biomes), 15 sats, and the planet. No losses, 2 LDs and all 5 MDs down, another 20% damage to the planet.

Turn 156:
A07 License to Sing retreats to Wiira; too much damage to repair and 9 enemy CRs incoming. It'll probably be broken up to bolster the other three fleets at Wiira.

Disruptor Shield comes in. I queue up Magnoceramics; our ships are still fairly fragile. I turn off research spending to build up cash in case we need more anti-Locust ships.

I design the CNCDisCA 2.04 - Judas Priest and the PDDisCA 2.04 - 10CC to spearhead the anti-Locust effort. I also design the RefDisCA 2.04 - Bad Company. Ships are ordered... still gonna be thin to defend Aaryn. Aaryn has overharvest on max; Baltar has overharvest on as well, but only needs it for 2 turns. I save at this point, and reset combat turn length to 10 minutes.

IT:
Wester, Xhubasos - peace

Turn 157:
A01 Tick Tock sent to Aichi to help our ally. Begin positioning fleets to meet the Locusts.

IT:
Wester, Xhubasos - peace

Ka'Konum - 11 DEs, 10 CRs plus our ally's 1 DE, 19 CRs, 20 sats and colony vs. 1 DE, 10 CRs of the Liir. Let's hope we can get into position to stop biomissiles or that our ally has good PD. Luckily, we come in just to the side of the Liir but getting tangled up with them exposes us to Fusion Projectors, Phasers, Positron Beams - we lose 3 CAs and 5 DEs but all the Liir ships are destroyed.

Turn 158:
Ships built for the first attempt at stopping the Locusts are dispatched. Forces will be: 4 CNC, 5 PD, 9 WarCA, 6 Refineries, 1 DSDD and 1 DrvDD. Hopefully it will be enough. Just in case, though, more ships are ordered. The lead fleet is named A09 The Battle of Evermore.

Research spending it turned on for MCL, 6 turns to complete.

IT:
Wester, Xhubasos - peace

Turn 159:
Order up more ships. Here come the Locusts.

Our ally is sending a single CR to attack Mintarr. A01 Tick Tock follows to support the brave captain.

IT:
Wester, Xhubasos - peace

Aaryn - here we go... I manage to destroy the Locust Mothership while only losing the sacrificial Refineries and the colony.

Turn 160:
Ding dong the Locusts are dead! One Refinery managed to survive, although it had no weapons and probably should have been destroyed... No repair capability here, no refueling until we get a colonizer here... but I did it!

There's the makings of a couple of good fleets at Aaryn, Baltar and Shamballa. I queued up a Biome and a couple of RepairCAs at Shamballa so you can get that world back - with nearly 80k resources, it's going to be a doozy of a forgeworld even though it's only size 5!

Have fun, Abyss! Oh, and don't forget to set the combat timer back down. :)
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by ZedF » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:41 pm

Good job killing Locusts, Starknight! :) How on earth did Aaryn get almost 80k resources though?!? I thought the Locusts were not supposed to be able to drop more than a couple thousand resources, not almost 75k resources! That's pretty insane. You're right that it will make an awesome forge world once it rebuilds its infrastructure and grows its population back up; here I think we want to settle with more than one biome in order to maximize the population growth rate, so perhaps Shamalla should build a pair of biomes and a gravboat this turn for that purpose.

Regarding the leftovers of A09 Battle of Evermore (our anti-locust fleet) I would just scrap the busted-engine refinery and the PD cruisers, and withdraw the remaining ships to Shamballa and Baltar to be incorporated into new, more conventional fleets - we already have 6 CnC built and a bunch of HeavyCAs so we could easily flesh out 3 fleets around that core. We probably no longer need the disruptor shielded PD and refinery designs, and maybe not the CnC either depending on how dangerous Liir energy weapons are.

Otherwise, it looks like we still have a bunch of new colonies to settle and we could probably use some more freighters. We have enough territory that we don't have to settle on the other side of the rift if we don't want to, but I don't think a turnset or two worth of economy buffing would go amiss at this point. Probably if we just wanted to go to final war at this point we could make it work, but I don't think there is any real rush. I'd rather at least wait until we have Fusion and Void Carver so we can build some nice speedy fleets to finish up with.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Starknight
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by Starknight » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:14 am

ZedF wrote:Good job killing Locusts, Starknight! :) How on earth did Aaryn get almost 80k resources though?!? I thought the Locusts were not supposed to be able to drop more than a couple thousand resources, not almost 75k resources! That's pretty insane. You're right that it will make an awesome forge world once it rebuilds its infrastructure and grows its population back up; here I think we want to settle with more than one biome in order to maximize the population growth rate, so perhaps Shamalla should build a pair of biomes and a gravboat this turn for that purpose.


I'm thinking they probably would have split after Aaryn, and that's why we got so many resources. But really, I don't know. Still, we did get an awesome world out of it!

Regarding the leftovers of A09 Battle of Evermore (our anti-locust fleet) I would just scrap the busted-engine refinery and the PD cruisers, and withdraw the remaining ships to Shamballa and Baltar to be incorporated into new, more conventional fleets - we already have 6 CnC built and a bunch of HeavyCAs so we could easily flesh out 3 fleets around that core. We probably no longer need the disruptor shielded PD and refinery designs, and maybe not the CnC either depending on how dangerous Liir energy weapons are.


You're probably right, although both the Liir and the Humans are heavily into energy weapons. Taking the first Fusion Projector barrage would be much safer that way. Although with FC and Heavy AP rounds, we can probably pick them off before they get into range. Also, I believe the Liir have AM at this point, and AM Projectors can't be far off for them. The one 'alternate timeline' battle I fought against Human ships, they had Plasma Cannon and Heavy Plasma Cannon - expect those to be updated as well.

Otherwise, it looks like we still have a bunch of new colonies to settle and we could probably use some more freighters. We have enough territory that we don't have to settle on the other side of the rift if we don't want to, but I don't think a turnset or two worth of economy buffing would go amiss at this point. Probably if we just wanted to go to final war at this point we could make it work, but I don't think there is any real rush. I'd rather at least wait until we have Fusion and Void Carver so we can build some nice speedy fleets to finish up with.


Yeah, probably not a bad idea. I'd suggest using the old fleets to help protect the Tarka worlds and support his attacks, and work on building up our side of the rift into an economic powerhouse.
My Morrigi fleet-speed calculator for SotS Prime
The Holy Lands - Hivers vs. the infidel Liir (and others)
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by ZedF » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:32 pm

I definitely agree with sending any new fleets we form from the remains of our locust annihilation efforts off to support the Tarka & pester the Liir and Humans.

Starknight wrote:You're probably right, although both the Liir and the Humans are heavily into energy weapons. Taking the first Fusion Projector barrage would be much safer that way. Although with FC and Heavy AP rounds, we can probably pick them off before they get into range.
Interesting thought to keep 2-3 of the PD cruisers per fleet so that we can put one at the head of a formation to absorb fusion projector fire, rather than scrapping all of them. Definitely we don't want to build any new ones, but it might be nice to try to get some more use from the ones we already have. I'm not sure that their complete lack of ability to do anything other than absorb an alpha-strike makes them really good for that role, but it could be worth experimenting with.

Unfortunately we don't really have any good small-mount weapons to make a more offensive version - AP gauss being too short-ranged & lacking punch - but we might try for X-ray lasers after we get fusion. Alternatively, if we get Combat Algorithms and can stick a couple destroyers in our fleets, we could build Disruptor shielded ones to take over this job, since we need extra DDs for our fleet speed anyway. Of course then we have to worry a bit more about replacing casualties since Disruptor DDs on point will be pretty exposed and vulnerable once the formation gets into a furball.

It would be nice if we could use our maneuverability to keep at long range from Liir ships and dance around while peppering with accurate heavy driver fire, but if they have AM and we have fission then their tech advantage is probably sufficient to overcome our racial advantage. Plus our firing arcs are not really that great for sabre dancing. Perhaps we can revisit the thought once we have Fusion engines, though.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by ivra » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:01 pm

Great job taking out the Locust Swarm! Do you have a save from the turn before you took it out? I would very much like to try that battle myself since I have never taken out the Locust Swarm using this kind of low-tech weapons.
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by Starknight » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:24 pm

ivra wrote:Great job taking out the Locust Swarm! Do you have a save from the turn before you took it out? I would very much like to try that battle myself since I have never taken out the Locust Swarm using this kind of low-tech weapons.


... autosave from turn before is the best i can do. :)

I think I got pretty lucky - the immortal refinery kept the Fleetworld from being able to advance towards the other ships and absorbed all of the fire, so I was able to retreat the two PD cruisers (all the drones were dead by that time) and bring in two more WarCAs. Then all I had to do was keep inching them forward as the heavy driver fire pushed the Fleetworld slowly backwards, in order to keep the heavy drivers in range. Still took about 9 minutes to kill the thing, though.
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My Morrigi fleet-speed calculator for SotS Prime
The Holy Lands - Hivers vs. the infidel Liir (and others)
Currently working on getting my board game Dragon Raiders into final condition before going to Kickstarter...

ZedF
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by ZedF » Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:09 am

Here's a couple even lower tech saves, attached. Neither of these have disruptor shields researched, they just have lots and lots of ships.
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Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Abyss
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by Abyss » Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:34 am

Alright, I'll work on this and hopefully get my turns done before the weekend.

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ivra
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Re: SotS1 SG17

Post by ivra » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:15 am

Starknight wrote:
ivra wrote:Great job taking out the Locust Swarm! Do you have a save from the turn before you took it out? I would very much like to try that battle myself since I have never taken out the Locust Swarm using this kind of low-tech weapons.


... autosave from turn before is the best i can do. :)

I think I got pretty lucky - the immortal refinery kept the Fleetworld from being able to advance towards the other ships and absorbed all of the fire, so I was able to retreat the two PD cruisers (all the drones were dead by that time) and bring in two more WarCAs. Then all I had to do was keep inching them forward as the heavy driver fire pushed the Fleetworld slowly backwards, in order to keep the heavy drivers in range. Still took about 9 minutes to kill the thing, though.

Thanks. I managed to do it quite similar to how you did it. I did not get 80k resources, though. Aaryn had only 8397 resources after the battle. I'll try your saves as well, ZedF.
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

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