SotS SG18a

Tactics and Action Reports.
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ivra
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Re: SotS SG18a

Post by ivra » Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:41 pm

Turn 60
I selected UV Lasers and put enough money into it to finish it in two turns. I am going to try to take Knossai by sending two fleets there. One of them is one of the two that was supposed to defend Zenla against 28 Zuul DEs. To compensate I am building 7 War ships at Zenla.

Battles
Defending Zenla against 28 Zuul DEs: Wow, that went well. 27 DEs down with no losses! Only the rip bore remains. The 7 War ships built here is sent to Knossai.
Peace at Ze'dmore.
Defending Akrop'txt against 4 Morrigi DEs: Easy victory.
Attacking Morrigi colony at Knossai, defended by 27 DEs: Battle was make much easier by the fact that Morrigi had no CnC ships, and a bit harder by the fact that they had a lot of drone ships with drones equipped with emitters. The result was a loss of 8 ships in order to take out 26 ships and the baby colony.

Turn 61
Building biomes and garrison fleet for Knossai.

Battles
Remaining rip bore at Zenla was taken out.
Peace at Ze'dmore.
Defending Castor against 13 Tarka DEs: No losses; Tarka did not bring a CnC ship.
Cleanup at Knossai; against 14 Morrigi DEs (13 of which arrived this turn). Lost 4 ships.

Turn 62
UV Laser came in. I am going for PD as well. If I am lucky it will come in next turn. A couple of our fleets lack a few ships, but I will wait with building new ships for them. I am going to take out the independent colony of Ze'dmore using our soon to be obsolete ships. But first they need to be repaired so the attack will not come next turn.

Battles
Peace at Ze'dmore.
Scout arriving at Kaa'ke was taken out.

Turn 63
PD went overbudget. 59 Tarka ships are heading towards Castor; eta 4 turns. I am still going to take out Ze'dmore next turn. Building freighters and biomes for Ze'dmore.

Battles
Attacking Ze'dmore: Lost 4 ships; colony and 6 LDs down.

Turn 64
PD is in; designing new ships. Started on Fusion. Building a reserve CnC and a couple of repair ships that we can send along our fleets to battles where we do not have repair capacity.

Battles
Cleanup at Ze'dmore.

Turn 65
Fusion research set to 75%; building freighters.

Turn 66
Nothing special.

Battles
Defending Castor against Tarkas; 2 CRs + 57 DEs: Tarkas used DE CnC so the battle was not hard at all. I could replace damaged ships between the waves and was able to take no losses; even the gate survived. 1 CR and 21 DEs down, so there is still work to do.
Defending Lupus against 17 Liir DEs: It turned out to be tankers and colonizers, so no problem. Although my ships were heavily damaged since I was located at their spawning space and took a couple of tanker explosions.

Turn 67
As predicted by Torezu, the Humans are back; this time with 9 CRs. Built enough freighters to fill all our routes except our HW. Forgot about mining; building a Canary as well this turn.

Battles
Defending Uul against 14 Liir DEs: It turned out to be 14 colonizers; no losses.
The battle continues at Castor; 1 CR + 36 DEs remains: Almost as good a result; lost 1 DE and took out 27 DEs.
Defending Beta Aquilae against 9 human CRs: The humans did not bring any CnC ships so I managed to take out 8 CRs without any losses.

Turn 68
Building 5 Mining ships.

Battles
The battle continues at Castor; 1 CR + 11 DEs remains: All clear; no losses.
Defending our rock called Tiamat against 24 Zuul DEs. The gate is red so it will probably be lost. I brought a repair ship, though, so I can repair any damage after the battle. As predicted the gate was lost. I also lost 2 DEs, but took out all 24 Zuul DEs.
Using Auto-Resolve to take out the remaining CR at Beta Aquilae: Hrmf, the AR killed 3 of my ships!!!

Turn 69
Since Fusion will come in next turn, if we are to trust our science department, I will not build replacement ships for ships lost.

Turn 70
Fusion came in on time. No new research project is started. I have moved our fleets to prepare for the incoming attacks.

Note:
- I have not redesigned our ships.
- We are ready for another wave of exploration.

SG-18a T070.sav
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

ZedF
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Re: SotS SG18a

Post by ZedF » Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:43 pm

@ Torezu

If a ship loses its engine then all its fuel is also lost so it still can't move, unless it's at a planet where it can be refueled. IIRC, I don't think you can use a gate if you have no fuel. The bigger issue is avoiding engine casualties on assault fleets in deep space, where we will be forced to scrap them as well as delay the fleet to do so.

Regarding sending out unescorted CA gates, we could do that but remember that any intercepting fleet will be sized appropriately for the job. Is it better to send a single relatively expensive gate ship or a handful of single DD fleets at the same time to the same target, so that the AI will try to intercept and maybe catch one but the rest keep going? I am not sure the single CA approach would be more successful.

There are a couple different ways to attempt to approach the issue so we should have plenty of opportunities to experiment.

@ Ivra: Sounds like a productive set of turns; we certainly are benefitting from the AI being silly and forgetting about CnC ships! Hopefully Starknight can continue along the same vein.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

Torezu
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Re: SotS SG18a

Post by Torezu » Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:55 pm

Tiamat will make a nice mining target, I think. I'd try to trip a mining trap first, though, and move a spare gate off world by a single turn (sublight).

I'm fairly certain ships without fuel can use gates, though ships without engines can't. But yeah, avoiding engine casualties in deep space is paramount. I also didn't consider that tactic of sending several single-DD fleets at the same time to the same place.

They sent 9 CRs to Beta Aquilae with no CnC? That's strange AI player behavior for you.

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ivra
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Re: SotS SG18a

Post by ivra » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:00 pm

ZedF wrote:If a ship loses its engine then all its fuel is also lost so it still can't move, unless it's at a planet where it can be refueled. IIRC, I don't think you can use a gate if you have no fuel.

True it cannot move though a gate. While defending the rock Tiamat I lost an engine. After I repaired the ship I just put it in the garrison fleet and took out another with fuel. It does not matter in a tactical battle as far as I know if the ship is out of fuel.

ZedF wrote:@ Ivra: Sounds like a productive set of turns; we certainly are benefitting from the AI being silly and forgetting about CnC ships!

Very true :)
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

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Re: SotS SG18a

Post by ivra » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:02 pm

Just a tip: If you play the mining trap battle manually, the gate will survive. If you use Auto-Resolve it will normally die.
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

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Re: SotS SG18a

Post by ZedF » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:22 pm

Yup, that's what the CanaryCA in the coal mine is for, refine and manual any battle with any traps that get tripped. If the refinery dies that's ok, that's why it's there! :)
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Re: SotS SG18a

Post by Starknight » Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:55 pm

I have the save, will get my turns done tonight barring catastrophe.
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The Holy Lands - Hivers vs. the infidel Liir (and others)
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Re: SotS SG18a

Post by ZedF » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:20 pm

Hey, we lucked out and got X-Ray lasers in our tree, that's pretty awesome! Doubt they have higher priority than Gate Amps or Mega-Stripmining -> Magnetoceramics, but still definitely on the 'should get this soon' list.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Re: SotS SG18a

Post by Starknight » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:32 pm

ZedF wrote:Hey, we lucked out and got X-Ray lasers in our tree, that's pretty awesome! Doubt they have higher priority than Gate Amps or Mega-Stripmining -> Magnetoceramics, but still definitely on the 'should get this soon' list.


Gate Amps, MSM, Magno, XRay... I can go that route I guess. Might even get the link to Phasers off of XRay. ;)
My Morrigi fleet-speed calculator for SotS Prime
The Holy Lands - Hivers vs. the infidel Liir (and others)
Currently working on getting my board game Dragon Raiders into final condition before going to Kickstarter...

ZedF
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Re: SotS SG18a

Post by ZedF » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:47 pm

Well, maybe. OTOH I am not sure phasers are enough better for us than APMD to justify themselves when we already have the latter. We are climbing the laser tree for small mount weapons far more than medium ones. :)

Ivra left the initial ship redesign with fusion engines to you, so please go ahead with that and reset the minor version number (i.e. 8.01).
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Re: SotS SG18a

Post by ivra » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:21 pm

ZedF wrote:Well, maybe. OTOH I am not sure phasers are enough better for us than APMD to justify themselves when we already have the latter. We are climbing the laser tree for small mount weapons far more than medium ones. :)

I never research Phasers to use them. They are too specific for my taste since they cannot damage planets. I always research them though (but not until right before or after I research AM) to see if I get one of the two techs above it, especially PD Phasers are wonderful. Similarly I never use Meson Beams since they destroy planets. I like to keep it simple and use weapons that can handle all situations.
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

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Re: SotS SG18a

Post by ZedF » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:15 pm

When I use phasers it's not difficult to pack shuttles as well, I often want those anyway. ;)

I've used Meson beams in 1.8.0 and not had problems with destroying planets as long as my enemy's preferred CH is not too far away from mine. They do some CH damage but remove population so quickly that it often doesn't have time to do too much CH damage. As always, depends on circumstances.
Zed's TARs (sample):
Fractious Allies -- Hiver vs. Hiver, with allies
Who Let The Bugs Out -- Hiver vs. Tarka and Zuul
Tarka Ascendant -- Tarka vs. Hiver and Zuul

Strategy & Tactics Forum Archive -- More posts on strategy, tactics, and TARs

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Starknight
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Re: SotS SG18a

Post by Starknight » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:16 pm

Gah! I thought I had posted this last night!

Turn 70:
Redesign all ships to use Fusion, with the exception of 'gate-only' ships like Colonizers, Mining ships, and Canary Refineries.

Incoming Tarka fleet at Ulol is 11 'Five Fist' DEs, and one 'Little Heart' CR. I'm guessing colonizers and a refinery. Should be no problem.

Gate Amplifiers is 4 turns at just over 50% expenditure. I set it to 3 turns at about 75% and will probably turn it back after two unless I get lucky.

Checking on targets for a new exploration wave... Hm. Okay, checking the rules we do not have to send out discovery fleets to enemy colonies. Since we have sensor evidence of enemy colonies at most of the worlds within range, this could wind up being a fairly small wave. Krankor (suspected Zuul colony), Markab (Liir in orbit), Algol (Tarka in orbit), Ushoba (indy), Uwiiri (indy), Kao'Tuno, Peten, Uaxhaktos, Ko'Kotan, Kumixhos, and Lupus (suspected Tarka colony). Everything else in range is a known enemy colony or 'discovered but not explored' due to our last fleet being destroyed, although taking Buunen away from the Tarks might be worthwhile. I'll plan for 12 Discovery fleets, some of which will have a major combat component. I queue up 12 DE gates for now.

IT:
Chiskatet - VN pay the world a visit. We shoot down the probes.

Turn 71:
Mining ships arrive at Gudea and are put to work. The Canary in the asteroid mine is checking Xhistik'che for adherence to mining safety regulations.

9/12 discovery fleets created and named; remaining gates ordered, beginning to build escorts.

Ordering more freighters and opening new routes. (I usually work on a 5-turn cycle for freighter builds, assuming I have the cash, so I'll revisit this on turn 75.)

IT:
Ulol - two squads with a spare CNC in reserve vs. 11 DEs, 1 CR for the Tarks. (See previous speculation.) The replacements ding the gate a bit after the first group is taken out, but nothing irreparable.

Chiskatet - a lone Tarka scout arrives here. Where'd he come from? No matter, the garrison can handle him. He has UV Lasers and Reflective Armor (I saw the grasslights bounce.)

Turn 72:
Gate Amps comes in early (whew!). Our gate capacity is now 186. Assuming we want to restrict our fleet size to 1/3, we could field 10 CRs and a DE. That's still a bit thin for combat fleets, though, so I think we'll continue with DE-based defenses for now. To toughen them up, I select Mega-Stripmining (to get the cheaper link to Magno) as the next research. I also design the GateCA 8.01.

Ships at Ulol are repaired for the next bout with the Tarks.

I order up the rest of the escorts for the Discovery fleets. I'll consider putting together an assault fleet after that's done and they're dispatched. The first three on the list above, plus Buunen, are each getting a full squadron (1 CNCDD, 9 DrvDDs) plus a DS ER. The rest are just getting the standard garrison/picket fleet of 2 DrvDDs and a DS ER. Any leftover ships can be repurposed when they've accomplished their task. D Buunen is moved into launch position.

A Tark DE is spotted heading for Akrop'tet, but it won't arrive until turn 82.

IT:
Ulol - 5 colonizers and the Refinery left. I put the fleet into Pursuit mode on the refinery and target the engines. Unfortunately the excess damage blows up the whole ship, catching a few DrvDDs with the splash but none are destroyed. 2 colonizers left to destroy, one missing the command section.

Turn 73:
Canary sent to check out Kaa'Ke, since Xhistik'che is up to regulation safety parameters. D Krankor is moved into position to launch.

IT:
Castor - a Liir fleet of 12 DEs arrives. Three of our strikeforces are here to meet them... isn't that a bit overkill? It appears to be a colony fleet, since the 6 initial ships run from confrontation. I let the planet missiles do some damage, and will AR next turn.

Ulol - AR to remove last two Tark colonizers.

Arokor - raiders attack our shipping. AR.

Turn 74:
D Markab constituted and moved into position. I'm not sure if I missed it or it became uncolonized due to Tark presence, but Chi Draconis is now a Discovery target. I queue up a new D fleet.

Canary checks the asteroids at Kaa'Ke for stability.

MSM goes overbudget. Back to Hiver normal, I guess.

23 Human CRs are detected incoming to Beta Aquilae, due next turn. I direct traffic to that location. (6.01, 6.03, 6.05, Repair01 and Reserve CNC) I'm guessing the Mustang class is his CNC; he has 3 of them.

58 Zuul ships are detected heading to Tiamat but will not arrive until turn 82.

Castor completes Infra; Terraforming to be done soon.

IT:
Kor'Kora - a Morrigi scout arrives. He zaps us a couple of times, but is no match for our firepower.

Castor - AR to kill colonizers and tanker.

Beta Aquilae - MassSqd 6.03 takes the lead in this battle. The Humans have UV Lasers, Fusion Cannon, and surprisingly few missiles. As these are older fleets, it's not a wonderful outcome; MassSqd 6.03 is almost destroyed, we lose 2 CNC cruisers as well, but we do destroy one wave and kill the mission section on a second enemy CNC. And the gate is down, but we have plenty of spares.

Turn 75:
Remnants of 6.03 are folded into 6.01, along with the Reserve CNC. Time for round 2...

Algol is now a Liir colony. Okay, guess that fleet can be repurposed...

MSM comes in, researching Magnoceramic Lattices. We receive a salvage project, The Nine-Tail Incentive. This is an Industrial Technology project per the wiki... Reflective Coating? I start the project.

At Beta Aquilae, we killed 5 Titans (armor CRs), and one Mustang. I guessed right. :) One more ship is reporting lost mission section - his other ships are all Titans and Catalinas. Not sure what those are, but there's too many of them to be R&S - he started with 10 each Titans and Catalinas, and 3 Mustangs. So he's down to his last effective CNC; hopefully I can take it out next turn. (Although it will probably run.) Also, some of his ships have APMD.

I check our trade networks, queue up some freighters and open the routes at Ze'dmore.

23 Morrigi ships - 8 DEs, 15 CRs - are detected incoming to Chiskatet. Since there is a rip fleet incoming to Xhistikche this turn, that only leaves MassSqd 6.02 able to respond. Keeping my fingers crossed. (And building reinforcements at Chiskatet.)

IT:
Chiskatet - one squadron vs. 8 DEs, 15 CRs. We kill a number of his CRs, including two CNCs (he brought 3), but lost most of the fleet. Looking forward to having more armor.

Beta Aquilae - MassSqd 6.01 takes point this time against 17 CRs. We lose another gate, and some DEs, but take out one of the two remaining enemy CNCs and 7 CRs.

Xhistik'che - our squadron vs. 7 DEs. No losses, destroyed the rip fleet.

Turn 76:
Mining 01 fills up, heads to the homeworld to dump ore.

The Morrigi Tzemeteos class is his CNC; the Purpose Served is an armor. We killed 7 ships total; he has 8 more, plus 8 DEs, to continue his attack on Chiskatet. Beta Aquilae is in better shape; we lost the gate and a WarDD, but took out 5 Catalinas and 2 Titans. Catalinas are War CRs. And according to the AAR, we did *not* destroy his CNC... but I saw it explode. Something's fishy here.

Chi Draconis is now owned by the Tarks. Heck with it, it'll still be a baby colony when the fleet gets there.

IT:
Chiskatet - 7 DEs and a R&S CR, vs 8 CRs, 8 DEs. The fleet is lost, without destroying the enemy CNC. They pound the colony for a while.

Beta Aquilae - 6.01 takes the lead again. 10 CRs remain, with both of his CNCs in the red. One CNC down, 8 other CRs down.

Turn 77:
MCL comes in... and reveals no link to Quark Resonators. Are you freakin' kidding me? I queue up XRay Lasers at 2 turns, redesign ships, and swear a lot.

I begin building a replacement fleet at the homeworld. Chiskatet ekes out a pair of destroyers, who will try to kite the bad guys.

IT:
Chiskatet - two DEs try to lead the Morrigi on a merry chase... I split the DEs, send one each direction. One gets caught and destroyed with about half the round left, then they attack the planet. The other goes undetected, so I'll have 3 next round.

Beta Aquilae - AR to remove damaged enemy CNC.

Turn 78:
We get a good look at the fleet incoming to Tiamat - 42 DEs and 16 CRs. Oh, and now there's 32 more Zuul ships coming in from the other direction, due on the same turn. That's going to get ugly fast.

The new fleet building at the homeworld will have: 2xCNCCA, 1xRepairCA, 1xGateCA, 24xDrvDD, all armored with Magno and sporting UV Lasers, PD Lasers, and AP Mass Drivers. 48 gate points means we can push 3/turn with 36 gate points to spare (if we lose Chiskatet) or 42 to spare if we manage to kill of the invaders.

I opt to build a new DE gate for Chiskatet this turn. With a little overharvesting, I can also get another DrvDD to decoy the enemy CRs.

Discovery fleets launched.

IT:
Chiskatet - Run the gate and one DrvDD one direction, the other DrvDD the other to try and draw them off. Success

Xhistik'che - another fleet arrives, composed of 6 Zuul DEs. Destroyed with no losses.

Turn 79:
XRay Lasers goes overbudget. Yeah, it's that kind of night.

Still overharvesting at Chiskatet, this time to be able to build 2 DEs. Deploying gate and keeping my fingers crossed.

Started another replacement fleet.


IT:
Chiskatet - 3 DrvDDs and the deployed gate. Keeping one DD back to defend the gate, splitting the other two and will play tag-team to keep the CRs as far from the planet as possible. No luck with that plan, but I'm able to take out the ships before they kill the gate... and by using my ships to rush the spawn point, I ensure no other ships get close enough to attack it. We lose 2 of the DrvDDs but the gate stays up.

Turn 80:
XRay Lasers comes in. Gudea mined out. I direct APDrvDDSqd 8.01 to Chiskatet and leave everything else to the next player - it's late, I need to take out the trash, and I have to work in the morning. *EDIT: Since I didn't get this posted when I thought, you can ignore the last three comments. :)
My Morrigi fleet-speed calculator for SotS Prime
The Holy Lands - Hivers vs. the infidel Liir (and others)
Currently working on getting my board game Dragon Raiders into final condition before going to Kickstarter...

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ivra
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Re: SotS SG18a

Post by ivra » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:54 pm

Starknight wrote:Castor - a Liir fleet of 12 DEs arrives. Three of our strikeforces are here to meet them... isn't that a bit overkill?

Yes it turned out to be. When I moved them there I prepared to meet 12 CRs. Also there were only two incoming fleets when I ended the game so I moved three fleets here and two to the other destination.

Good job defending Chiskatet!!! By the way, Chiskatet is still Overharvesting.
A lot of these road signs go missing every year as the tourists collect their trophies. It makes me wonder if this road sign is indeed the most wanted souvenir of Norway...

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Starknight
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Re: SotS SG18a

Post by Starknight » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:22 pm

ivra wrote:
Starknight wrote:Castor - a Liir fleet of 12 DEs arrives. Three of our strikeforces are here to meet them... isn't that a bit overkill?

Yes it turned out to be. When I moved them there I prepared to meet 12 CRs. Also there were only two incoming fleets when I ended the game so I moved three fleets here and two to the other destination.


I'd probably have done the same in your shoes.

Good job defending Chiskatet!!! By the way, Chiskatet is still Overharvesting.


Thanks! I suppose I could have left Xhistik'che uncovered, but I didn't want to give up another world to the Zuul. Having more ships would definitely have helped against those Morrigi, though. As for the OH at Chiskatet, I needed it last turn and as I posted - it was late, I still needed to take the trash to the street, and I had to go to work this morning. I literally just hit 'save' on both the game and my writeup - I thought I had posted it here, too - and left my computer.
My Morrigi fleet-speed calculator for SotS Prime
The Holy Lands - Hivers vs. the infidel Liir (and others)
Currently working on getting my board game Dragon Raiders into final condition before going to Kickstarter...

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