Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

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Haplo_Patryn
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

Post by Haplo_Patryn » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:28 am

Yes, I know. I uninstalled and install the game before playing VAE the first time, when you posted your first mod version, but some files were not deleted. Seems Steam doesn't delete all the folders when uninstalling a game. This time I did it right deleting all the folders manually so problem solved :)

I'm playing a new test round, turn 50. A lot of fun, Suulkas, Hivers and Tarkas doing very well. Yesterday I had an encounter against Suulkas and surprisingly Tarkas joined me and fought against them during the tactical combat (2vs1).

So far so good, the mod is working well.

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dantespeak
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

Post by dantespeak » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:29 pm

I am playing in a medium galaxy of 5 players, already turn 120 . So far, everything is fine... And really fun. Just Loa seem to have had problems with early expansion. Very good mod! :D

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willdieh
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

Post by willdieh » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:27 pm

I posted a link to your mod on the SOTS subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/sots/...
Hope it gets more players back in the game :)

Haplo_Patryn
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

Post by Haplo_Patryn » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:47 pm

Hi. Attached save game, turn 124 I think.

Hivers and Suulkas eliminated by Liir&Tarkas. Tarkas doing very well, a lot. Expanding and doing good research.

Morrigi doing very bad, they're not colonizing and still have the beginning same systems. They have a lot of colonizable planets around but they're not colonizing them. They've a lot of fleets but not colony ones.
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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:01 am

Haplo_Patryn wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:47 pm
Hi. Attached save game, turn 124 I think.

Hivers and Suulkas eliminated by Liir&Tarkas. Tarkas doing very well, a lot. Expanding and doing good research.

Morrigi doing very bad, they're not colonizing and still have the beginning same systems. They have a lot of colonizable planets around but they're not colonizing them. They've a lot of fleets but not colony ones.
I'll take a look, but as with all things AI when you can't get to the coding itself, some matches will have different results.

EDIT: Looks like they are not focusing on colony fleets again since they went to war early. I'll attach an updated fleet templates file for you to try (shouldn't need to restart for that file) and see if they do anything.

EDIT 2:
Fleet_Templates_fix.zip
Extract it to the base\factions folder or extract it elsewhere and overwrite the fleet_templates.xml file.
It should make the AI better at its overall expansion due to increased priority for colony, construction and for hivers, gate fleets.
It should also allow Zuul to perform better since I spotted that they had almost no way to invade with a max of two fleets, which has now been fixed.
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Haplo_Patryn
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

Post by Haplo_Patryn » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:53 am

Thanks Rossinna, I will test it this weekend.

In another test round I'm playing right now (turn 50) all the IAs are investing a lot of money in Stimulus, although they have not any civilian station constructed. I'm talking about great amounts of money invested for "nothing" (250-300 cr). I know it must be very difficult to balance this economic issue but it's also a pity to watch all this wasted money that could be used better, like building more fleets/stations or prototypes (or for more savings).

For your information, SOL and Tarkas are doing very well in all my test games. Suulkas & Hivers have some problems but it depends more on the map and if they're going to war early or not than because they have issues with the mod.

Let's see what happens with your new template ;)

Thanks for your help.

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:02 am

I'm aware of the stimulus spending, nothing I can do apart from disabling trade which is out of the scope of VAE. But from my studies, the money unless it is actually used to pay for something just gets put back into the end of turn savings so it isn't as crippling as it appears.
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Haplo_Patryn
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

Post by Haplo_Patryn » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:22 am

Good to know, then no problem here :)

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Nayas
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

Post by Nayas » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:31 am

I just tried this out for first time in couple games. More changes than I'd expect from "vanilla", but at least ai seems to be more lively.
Haven't you overdid the morrigi grav bonus? Starting 54 point fleet has 9.75 speed, which is faster than any other drives, including node lines, or deepscan sensor range. And with new templates and no maintanace almost every fleet I see is max size.
Why do science stations cost a ton? I wouldn't mind the initial cost, but 500k for lv2 seems like an overkill. Was it made like that to try and make ai prioritize other stations? I'll have to check if it's working if that's the case.

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:32 am

Nayas wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:31 am
I just tried this out for first time in couple games. More changes than I'd expect from "vanilla", but at least ai seems to be more lively.
Haven't you overdid the morrigi grav bonus? Starting 54 point fleet has 9.75 speed, which is faster than any other drives, including node lines, or deepscan sensor range. And with new templates and no maintanace almost every fleet I see is max size.
Why do science stations cost a ton? I wouldn't mind the initial cost, but 500k for lv2 seems like an overkill. Was it made like that to try and make ai prioritize other stations? I'll have to check if it's working if that's the case.
Maintenance is one of the things always holding the AI back since it would always put them into debt since said AI doesn't balance its spending to factor it in.

Station costs are unchanged from vanilla; you can confirm that if you like by checking the dates on the science stations themselves within your faction folders, they should not match anything from VAE.

As for the Morrigi FTL speeds, I was asking for feedback on them. You can alter the bonuses they get from flocking in the commonassets file.

<FlockMaxBonus>3.0</FlockMaxBonus>
<FlockBRBonus>0</FlockBRBonus>
<FlockCRBonus>0.1</FlockCRBonus>
<FlockDNBonus>0.3</FlockDNBonus>
<FlockLVBonus>0.5</FlockLVBonus>
<FlockBRCountBonus>0</FlockBRCountBonus>
<FlockCRCountBonus>6</FlockCRCountBonus>
<FlockDNCountBonus>3</FlockDNCountBonus>
<FlockLVCountBonus>2</FlockLVCountBonus>

You can lower some of those numbers and if you want, let me know which feels optimal to you and when\if I get back to work on VAE, i'll include it as the default setting.

Another thing might be to lower the bonus that Grav Synergy provides if late-game speeds are too high, its found within the techbonuses.xml

<TechBonus techID="DRV_Grav_Synergy" flockbonusscale="2.0"/>
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Nayas
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

Post by Nayas » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:25 pm

Ah, sorry, I got confused, It's been a while since I last played. Dock modules do seem useless now, but that's not much of a deal.

I haven't played with/against Morrigi much, so far it only seems that the CR cap is too high.
And playing as Zuul lets you spam cheap ships so much, they really received a lot of strategic bonuses, besides benefiting the most from no maintenance with cheapest costs. Makes me think that maintenance costs for the player should be higher or there should be some other limiting factor.

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Rossinna-Sama
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

Post by Rossinna-Sama » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:01 pm

Nayas wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:25 pm
Ah, sorry, I got confused, It's been a while since I last played. Dock modules do seem useless now, but that's not much of a deal.

I haven't played with/against Morrigi much, so far it only seems that the CR cap is too high.
And playing as Zuul lets you spam cheap ships so much, they really received a lot of strategic bonuses, besides benefiting the most from no maintenance with cheapest costs. Makes me think that maintenance costs for the player should be higher or there should be some other limiting factor.
Maintenance costs can be found in the commonassets file. If you do decide to increase them again, going too far will cause the AI to fall back into bankruptcy and never get to turn 300 without having a very small number of fleets. Could try fiddling with the station upkeep costs though, while the AI likes them, it wouldn't be as bad a hit as ship maintenance.

CR numbers per fleet are vanilla, unless you mean the actual number the AI builds. That'd be on purpose.

Zuul and Loa have large bonuses to make them AI friendly, though Loa has problems with NPG gate spam right now and I'm not sure how to fix that as of yet. (as I'm working on the solution over on PH). They will still work when you're playing them, but they probably require a 1v2. AI has immense problems with those two factions otherwise.

SOTS2 isn't really optimized for larger maps unlike SOTS Prime, so that may also be a consideration.
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waylander8007
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

Post by waylander8007 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:16 pm

Returning to SOTS 2 after a while away, great to see mods still being made. Will give it a try and feedback. Thanks for the hard work getting the mod ready for playing.

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Slashman
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

Post by Slashman » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:00 am

waylander8007 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:16 pm
Returning to SOTS 2 after a while away, great to see mods still being made. Will give it a try and feedback. Thanks for the hard work getting the mod ready for playing.
Welcome back! And please take a look at the current Kerberos Kickstarter if you haven't before and tell any friends who might be interested!
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HellBent
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Re: Vanilla AI Enhancement - VAE - Alpha Release - V6

Post by HellBent » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:56 am

Amazing work, this might get me back into SOTS2. Still my saddest story in game development, loved the first one, was so excited by this then....

I reinstalled last year, played an hour of a game, spent so long trying to remember all the (poorly explained) mechanics before realising the AI was brain dead and hadn't left their starting planets

Will reinstall and give this a go, hopefully I can get a good game. Any other mods i should check out? Reforged?

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